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Capacitor confusion

macclassic

Well-known member
I want some capacitors for my Classic, the one's near the power supply, and would like to buy equal to, or better than OEM quality - without going broke for Tantalum's, but I'm confused by some of the manufacturers specifications.

I think that a higher lifetime at a higher temperature is good

I think that a low ESR is good

but I've no idea about the numbers given for ripple current, e.g. "Ripple Current 1400mA". Is a high number here good or bad for a capacitor in a switching power supply circuit???

Help please, in plain english

 

wally

Well-known member
Even unabused conventional liquid electrolytic capacitors made by the most reputable manufacturers degrade by loss of electrolyte.

There is some gradual loss by evaporation past lead seal(s) even when idle at room temperature.

Loss is compounded if seals are thermally abused by soldering process and/or chemically compromised by cleaning solvents.

With respect to a given seal technology electrolyte loss is accelerated if the internal vapor pressure increases for any reason, such as:

- a higher vapor pressure electrolyte formulation is selected to achieve extended temperature operation (varies by mfg and exact capacitor model),

- breakdown of electrolyte either by electrolysis in operation with DC voltage applied or local corrosion electrolysis due to impurities in capacitor internal construction

- high temperature environment, storage and/or application

- elevated core temperature due to I^2*ESR internal heating where I is the ac ripple current in the particular application--Mfg specifies that operation lifetime spec'd will be met or exceeded in an endurance test using the associated AC ripple current specified combined with applied DC volts per the capacitor rating, and a mfg stated test temperature--The application should apply less than this spec'd datasheet current to achieve improved operation life hours beyond the life spec.

-sudden application of voltage to a capacitor that has sat idle for years, causing local overheating where oxide has not had time to reform, sometimes announcing itself with a chemical steam explosion.

In power supplies the highest ripple current rating cap choices should be preferred in the rail caps right after the rectifiers, both after the mains 50/60 Hz direct rectification, and after the high frequency inverter output rectification. But it would not hurt to pick high ripple current rated caps for the DC output rails after the chokes and the various linear regulators also that see ripple from the dynamic load currents.

Upsizing of capacitance value to achieve even lower ESR and higher ripple current specs should be avoided, this can increase turn on surge currents and if taken too far can let the magic smoke out of the rectifiers, which is often followed by steam explosions.

Absolutely avoid picking the caps in the catalog that have exceptionally low ripple ratings combined with the most compact packaging. Even the best mfgs have these in their catalogs for the small signal almost no power coupling applications where small size is required.

For motherboards Japanese solid electrolyte aluminum capacitors are the new thing, but I have no experience with these yet.

 

macclassic

Well-known member
Thank's, that's just what I wanted, an explanation of some underlying principles to inform my choice.

So to be completely clear, the caps with the highest Ripple Current rating on the example listing are then 1790mA and the lowest 321mA, yes!?

I'm already missing that lovely startup tone.

 

wally

Well-known member
.....the caps with the highest Ripple Current rating on the example listing are then 1790mA and the lowest 321mA, yes!?...
You read that correctly. Notice how there is a message with some of the different caps with what current they picked to run the endurance testing. The 321 mA cap has really big hours rated, but be assured that if run at an amp or more of switching supply ripple (commonly encountered in power supplies), it would heat up inside and most of the other caps listed would likely outlast it. It's usually best to be well below the endurance testing ripple current datasheet rating in your application for long life. Leave the 321 mA rated cap for signal paths in building miniature audio preamplifiers and such.

Usually to achieve both low ESR and a high ripple current rating thicker foil is needed inside resulting in a fatter and/or taller but internally cooler running cap. Of the choices that physically fit, favor the coolest running ones from a manufacturer that likely uses pure materials inside and has good seal technology. Use the ripple current specs to eliminate inappropriate small signal type caps. In each application there is an application specific average ripple current (that is mostly independent of your capacitor choice) I that will cause I*I*ESR watts worth of heating. So look for lowest ESR amongst the caps that have reasonably high endurance hours and reasonably high ripple current specs.

For insight into manufacturer's reputations see http://www.badcaps.net/forum/index.php

but remember even the best will make some models that are intended for low currents only.

 

CelGen

Well-known member
I've always just given the list of caps to my local shop and they instantly knew it was a PSU job.

Unless your dealer is incredibly shady your dealer will hand out UNC's Nichicon or Panasonics.

Don't question temps or ripple rating. For the most part it doesn't matter.

 

CelGen

Well-known member
I won't deny I live out in the sticks but you got no local shops within a half hour drive?

 

Paralel

Well-known member
Finding a brick and mortar place in the US that would handle something like that, these days, is quite a rarity.

 

techknight

Well-known member
Yup, nothing like that around here except radio shack, and those caps are taiwanese junk.

But, the lucky thing is parts-express/MCM Electronics is somewhat local.

 

mcdermd

Well-known member
I have a shop about 25 miles away that's a classic electronic component place but I've found that's a rarity.

 
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