Can't pick a vintage Mac and need help please.

[9646gt]

Not sure this is the right forum so feel free to move it mods.

I'm trying to decide on a vintage Mac to purchase. The more I think I have found my match the more I seem to run into limitations or extra costs that makes it seem not practical. I currently own multiple DOS/Windows PCs that I game on and want to play some stuff on Mac even if it's just rehashes of PC games. I also on a Dual 800mhz G4 quick silver that covers all the later games.

I've owned vintage Mac's but it's been a few years. Stuff like the LC, Classic, and IIsi. My biggest requirement is I want to play on System 7. I'm thinking either a 68040 would be best for being able to run any System 7 games I come across. I can run all older Power PC games on my DP800 under OS9. But I wouldn't be against an early PPC machine running the 68k emulation layer if it fits best.

I have a soft spot for the older pizza box style cases for sure. But they also require extra investment in the form of a CDROM drive to easily move files or play some later software. And most were slower 68030s. I'm not worried about replacing caps because I have equipment for surface mount caps and stuff if I need to replace them.

I've looked at the Performa 6116CD because it's more up to date and reliable pizza box style. But I read it uses system RAM as VRAM like the IIsi and it also needs an HDI-45 adapter witch is pricey. I like the idea of adding an HPV card but they are as much as a machine is and require the angle adapter which I don't seem to find anywhere.

Then I looked at the 6200 or 6300 series because it's still a somewhat small desktop for putting a CRT on top of but heard they can be terrible running both 68k and PPC software but that cache and RAM can improve things.

I'm looking to play some stuff like SimCity and other strategy games and maybe some shooters. Are there any Mac's I'm overlooking? I don't want something so new it feels out of place. And System 7 is a must for nostalgia reasons.

 

[Phipli]

Not sure this is the right forum so feel free to move it mods.

I'm trying to decide on a vintage Mac to purchase. The more I think I have found my match the more I seem to run into limitations or extra costs that makes it seem not practical. I currently own multiple DOS/Windows PCs that I game on and want to play some stuff on Mac even if it's just rehashes of PC games. I also on a Dual 800mhz G4 quick silver that covers all the later games.

I've owned vintage Mac's but it's been a few years. Stuff like the LC, Classic, and IIsi. My biggest requirement is I want to play on System 7. I'm thinking either a 68040 would be best for being able to run any System 7 games I come across. I can run all older Power PC games on my DP800 under OS9. But I wouldn't be against an early PPC machine running the 68k emulation layer if it fits best.

I have a soft spot for the older pizza box style cases for sure. But they also require extra investment in the form of a CDROM drive to easily move files or play some later software. And most were slower 68030s. I'm not worried about replacing caps because I have equipment for surface mount caps and stuff if I need to replace them.

I've looked at the Performa 6116CD because it's more up to date and reliable pizza box style. But I read it uses system RAM as VRAM like the IIsi and it also needs an HDI-45 adapter witch is pricey. I like the idea of adding an HPV card but they are as much as a machine is and require the angle adapter which I don't seem to find anywhere.

Then I looked at the 6200 or 6300 series because it's still a somewhat small desktop for putting a CRT on top of but heard they can be terrible running both 68k and PPC software but that cache and RAM can improve things.

I'm looking to play some stuff like SimCity and other strategy games and maybe some shooters. Are there any Mac's I'm overlooking? I don't want something so new it feels out of place. And System 7 is a must for nostalgia reasons.

If you want to play 3D shooters, you pretty much need to go PowerPC. Any 3D shooter should work on your Quicksilver though.

The most solid and reliable pre-powermacs are probably the Quadra 650 and the LC/Performa/Quadra 630. They're late model 68k macs that can handle large amounts of RAM.

The 650 is more easily expandable and can take 3 Nubus cards, or 2 and a PDS card (usually a PowerPC upgrade). They can take up to 264MB (which is insane) and happily run OSes from 7.1.2 to 8.1. Video Memory can be extended to 1MB from the stock 512k for not too much money. This gives thousands of colours at 832*624 and 256 at 1024*768.

The 630 on the other hand doesn't have Nubus cards, but still offers bespoke upgrades including video capture, a Comm Slot (modem or ethernet) and LC PDS (ethernet, video other stuff), and DOS cards that go in the CPU socket (also very hard to get PowerPC upgrades). The big advantage with the 630 is that it uses an IDE hard disk, which is much cheaper to replace with newer parts, such as a Compact Flash card. It takes up to 132 or 196MB in some versions that have a second memory slot. Video memory is not extendable. The 630 happily runs OSes from 7.1.2P to 8.1

Both optionally came with a built in CD drive and built in video that will happily drive a VGA monitor at 800*600 or higher with an Apple to VGA adapter.

The 630 tends to sell quite cheaply and is probably the one I'd go for if you aren't planning to run 2 monitors and an 8 channel audio card.

Both can be easily overclocked to 40MHz.

Both can have power supply issues, the 630 is possibly more prone.

 

[Phipli]

Almost all "Beige" PowerPCs will run some form of System 7 (everything other than the Beige G3), so I'm not really sure how you want to narrow that down.

 

[Kouzui]

the best PowerPC G3 is the minitower IMO, or the B&W if you're up for it. If you want an earlier machine, I'd recommend a 040 machine you can find for cheap, or a 030 machine if you can't find the former. System 7 runs reasonably well on my IIci and I don't see a reason to shell out hundreds more for a Quadra 700.

 

[ymk]

The 6100 class machines are great and can run a wide range of software.

They're faster than the 6200 and can expand to 486/66 or G3.

I don't think the shared VRAM situation is as crippling as the IIsi's, especially with L2 cache.

If you're set on an 040 machine, LC475s are inexpensive and easily clock to 33Mhz without compromises.

 

[TAMFan]

I agree about PPC being the best choice if gaming is your main focus. I remember feeling pretty limited by my '040 machine by the mid-late-90s. But you already have that covered by the G4... so it really seems like you should decide on the form-factor first, since the beigeness-and-System 7 seem to key points for your nostalgic happiness

Personally, I'm a huge fan of the 630 series, but I find those hard to recommend due to the awful case plastics and somewhat non-standard upgrade slots. I think they're charming, but kinda niche.

If pizza-boxes are your thing, then go for that! ymk nails that recommendation - the LC475 and possibly the (rarer?) Quadra 605 would be great 040 machines. IMO, the aesthetics are a little nicer with the clean lines (no CD bezel)... and do you really want/need CDs when SD adapters are so prevalent now? But then you'll also be more limited in the games library you can run. There are great 68k games! Just also a clear line in the sand when things shifted to PPC.

Going to the 6100 series would open up more titles for you, and provide a built-in CD drive if that's a priority for you. I think those are kinda like the "final form" of the pizza-box, and fun machines too.Great suggestions here already, just depends where your priorities land.

 

[sstaylor]

You can also look at the Quadra or Centris 610 or 660av. Nice pizza box like the 6100 but with a 68040, and does not need the fancy video adapter the 6100 series needs. They use SCSI hard drives that can be readily replaced with a Blue SCSI or Zulu SCSI adapter for not a ton of money.
I wouldn't shy away from the 6200/6300 machines. Sure they have a reputation for being slow, but it's only in relation to (some of) the other machines being sold at the time, and we're already looking at "slow" machines since they're all vintage right? Minimum system software is 7.5.1. They do use IDE hard drives but they can be really picky about which CF cards and adapters they want to run with. Fortunately they still have external SCSI and can use the various SCSI adapters.
There's also the whole range of PPC Macs like the 7100, 7300, 7500, 7600 which (on the later ones) require 7.5.5 and are generally pretty solid and fast but the further you go the closer you're getting to G4 territory.