Are you running a SCSI CD burner in your color classic?

[mraroid]

Folks....

 
I have a Mystic Color Classic.  I am running a LC 575 logic board with a full 68040 processor. I can boot to 7.6.1 or 8.1.
 
I have not been able to find a CD burner that will work with my set up.  I have bought two so far, and both do not work.  I have posted in the past about this and many people have suggested drivers, universal drives and the like.  But none seem to work.  I am starting to think that no CD burners were made that would work under 7.6.1 or 8.1
 
But if you have one working could you please post the full name and model number and which driver you use?
 
I will keep working on this problem for a while longer.  But if I can not find an answer, I will have to move to plan B, which would be a external Zip drive.
 
Any suggestions welcome.
 
Tanks in advance.
 
mraroid

 

[techknight]

I remember way way back in the day I used to use a CD burner under OS 8. I think it was Adaptec Toast and it was a Yamaha CRW. I remember it being either a 2X, or maybe a 4X drive. it was one of the early ones. 

These days I noticed they are getting hard to find and a bit pricey because the sampler guys snap them up. 

Edit: Just found it. CRW-4416S is what it was. But apparently the 8824S is supported under Toast 4.X which runs on 7.5.1 or newer. But be careful, those old days were the epitome of "coasters" and if your machine doesnt have the horsepower or optimized HDD filesystems, then youll run into buffer underrun errors = coaster. 

I remember having a 2x memorex burner I bought brand new back then, stuck in an HP Prolinea 575 that I upgraded to a P133 and it struggled. nearly 50% coasters. 

 

[mraroid]

techknight.....

Thank you for your post.

A few years ago I found a Yamaha external SCSI CD burner for sale.  It was model number CRW2100SXZ .  The seller had little information on it, but said it would work on older Macs.  So I emailed the seller and told him I was running 8.1 and would he check to make sure it would run under this OS.  He emailed me back and said it would, so I bought it.  Around the same time the drive went on sale, the original Yamaha CD driver disk became available from another seller so I bought that as well.
 
After the drive arrived the box clearly stated that the drive needed to run under 8.5 or newer.  I do not know if the seller did not read this, or lied to me.  I tried to install it in my Mystic under 8.1 anyway, but no cigar.  I was running a version of Toast at the time (4. something) and that did not help.
 
My Mystic has over 100 MBs of RAM and a CF2SCSI disk drive.  I swapped out the crippled 040 on the LC 575 logic board for a full 68040.  I have a lot of free disk space and I am running 640 X 480.  So I think (??) I have the horsepower to support a burner.
 

Did your CRW-4416S come with a driver disk?  Or, were you able to run it under Toast and did not look for a driver disk?
 
Thanks for the help,
 
mraroid
 


 
 

 

[mraroid]

I just saw this on ebay:
 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMAHA-CD-REWRITABLE-DRIVE-CRW-8824S-NB-SCSI/223253080367?hash=item33faeba92f:g:8FUAAOSwo-Jb-yiC:rk:1f:0
 
Was this drive also available as a external drive as well?  Looking at the power pin out on the rear of this drive, I see that it wants 5V and 12V.  i can not remember the pin out of the power cable that goes to the SCSI drive in a Color Classic.  Is it the same? 
 
As I am running a CF2SCSI drive in my CC, I think I have current to spare now that I do not need to power up a SCSI mechanical hard drive. Maybe this would work??
 
Thoughts?
 
mraroid
 
 

 

[techknight]

That drive your speaking about the CRW2100SX is too new. Way too new. Honestly anything past 4X needed a PPC or at least a very strong 040 to buffer up. 

No, I got my drive as a bare drive, and I stuck it in an old NEC CD-ROM enclosure and used Toast 4. it worked fine. 

Your baseline in all of this is "burnproof" drives. Anything that supports burnproof and newer needs a PPC or better. the older "coaster burning" drives are the ones that work with 68K. Although the yamaha you have does not have this technology, it was made in an era where the competition did. The CRW2100 has a different chipset anyways. Regardless, you need the older models. 

The reason I know this stuff is because way back then, i was downloading/pirating music and burning CDs for people, so I knew which combinations worked where. Not to mention that was right in my prime of owning/learning Macs so I got OS discs and office disks from my teachers to bring home and copy.

The other thing I remember is you have to get rid of ALL other CD extensions/drivers that are 3rd party. (like CD Sunrise, etc.) before itll get recognized that its a burner. I cannot recall if you have to remove the Apple extension or not, but at the time when I was using it I didn't have another drive. just the Yamaha. So the only driver in place should be the Toast driver. 

Even though mine is a 4416, an 8424 should work. I dont know about the 8824, but I dont see why not. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-CRW-8424S-CD-RW-Rewritable-50-Pin-SCSI-Drive-Audio-Out-PCB-NOS-Tested/302977042397?hash=item468ad6c7dd:g:HrMAAOSwOVlb48JW:rk:21f:0

Talking about this wants me to get it all hook up and fired up again for some reason, even though now I have zero use for CDs outside of vintage computing. 

 

[Franklinstein]

Toast or b's Recorder Gold are the only Classic Mac OS burning programs that I know about. I think both are available on the Garden.

I have a stack of old SCSI CD-R drives (Sony, Matsushita, Ricoh, and Yamaha, both tray and caddy-loaders) but because of their advanced age I really don't trust them for burning. Plus the 4x Matsushita units and some of the older Yamaha drives constantly run their itty bitty fans, and those things are loud; I put those in external cases so they're only turned on when I need them. The later models (8x or better) only run the fan when there's a disc in the drive, which is an improvement.

If you're trying to use CD-RWs (in an RW capable drive, of course), note that high speed discs will not work in these older drives; you need to find the older discs in the 4x range that don't say "High Speed" or whatever on them or the drive won't recognize them.

 

[techknight]

You know what I find amazing though. CDRs are still being made :-/

 

[Franklinstein]

Sometimes USB isn't an option. Sometimes you only need to burn a few hundred megs. Sometimes your friend's car still only has a CD changer.

They still make cassette tapes, too. I haven't seen new Type IV tapes, Type II are kind of sparse but they're around if you look hard enough, and Type III were crap so they've been out of production since the '80s, but basic Type I tapes are still readily available in a variety of lengths. I guess they're still useful for dictation or cheap and easy recording when fidelity isn't your primary concern.

 

[techknight]

Mine car has a CD player. But, its dead. its one of those POS 6-disc changers that all break. 

 

[Franklinstein]

So do these old optical drives. Typically they just develop intermittent problems with reading discs rather than failing completely. I assume this is primarily due to the diminishing output of the laser diode and/or reduced sensitivity of the sensor. Matsushita drives are really bad for that but I've had some success in adjusting some of the pots on the optical block to bring them back into service. Also, loading belts are always a problem after a while.

 

[techknight]

Well in the case of the 6-disc changers, its mechanical failure. the constant hot/cold cycles of an automobile eventually stress out all the plastic gears, so randomly one day it starts munching itself and thats it. done. 

 

[Unknown_K]

I have burned CDR using a IIfx and a Teac 6x burner without problems. 1x is 150KB/sec so you won't have issues burning until the SCSI HD has problems keeping up (or you saturate the SCSI Bus). 6x would be 900KB/sec (I was using the built in external SCSI bus and my HD was a more modern drive on a FWB jackhammer).

There are updates to toast that support newer drives.

https://winworldpc.com/product/toast/3x

This has download links for Asatre Toast 2.x, to Adaptec toast 3.x and 4.x. (before Roxio purchased it). Some manuals and updates are there as well.

 

[CC_333]

I have an old Que! external SCSI drive, and I got it to work under... OS 9?... way back when (about 12 years ago). That was neat!

I've always been under the impression that, if proper drivers are available for a given platform, and the drive has the proper interface (SCSI, in this case), it will just work, albeit at a slower speed, perhaps (Why can't a new-ish drive from the late 90s work on a 68k Mac at a slower speed? Lack of driver availability would be one of the only reasons I can think of...)

c

 

[Unknown_K]

Burning software needs to know the drive specs of a burner so you need drivers for that. You can use most SCSI cdr/cdrw as a cdrom without specific drivers.

 

[mraroid]

I have burned CDR using a IIfx and a Teac 6x burner without problems.

Can you post the full name of this burner drive that you had working in your IIfx?

Thanks,

mraroid

 

[mraroid]

Even though mine is a 4416, an 8424 should work. I dont know about the 8824, but I dont see why not. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-CRW-8424S-CD-RW-Rewritable-50-Pin-SCSI-Drive-Audio-Out-PCB-NOS-Tested/302977042397?hash=item468ad6c7dd:g:HrMAAOSwOVlb48JW:rk:21f:0

Thanks for your post.  I will keep an eye out for the above two burners.  Sounds like they will work.

mraroid

 

[Unknown_K]

Can you post the full name of this burner drive that you had working in your IIfx?

Thanks,

mraroid

This is the drive, I think it is a Teac CDR-56S. Not sure what version of toast I used, it was a long time ago. The drive above it is a 1.3GB MO drive.