Andy’s PowerBook Problem

[AndyO]

Well, damn. This morning, I tripped over the power cable for the 3400c and nearly dragged the PB off the coffee table. Serves me right for trying to maneuver around furniture before my mug of coffee. However, despite that, the 3400 is OK, and so is the PSU, which I then proceeded to plug into the dead-as-a-dodo 280c, because... well, I don't really know why, it just seemed a sensibly pointless thing to do.

The very odd thing is that the 280c power light came on. This is the first sign of life of any kind it has given. I tried the reset thing, but nothing changed. Pressed the power button on the back, and the power light went out. A minute later, it chimed, but no screen. After a couple of minutes (to drink my coffee), I pressed the power button on the back again, the power light flickered, then it chimed, the screen came up, and the 280c booted.

So it sort-of lives. This is both odd and rather pleasing.


Oh my, however, what an awful keyboard!

I left it alone for 5 minutes and it put itself to sleep, including the flashing power light, but then it died again and went back to no signs of life. I know it's not the PSU because I've tried two others with the same (dead) results, and it has chimed once since then, which I will take as a challenge! I must say though that while it was running, I thought the screen was quite excellent, and I really like the tiny trackball - so much better than the trackpads that have come since.

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

which I then proceeded to plug into the dead-as-a-dodo 280c, because... well, I don't really know why, it just seemed a sensibly pointless thing to do.

Hey, that’s exactly how I “fixed” the seemingly fried ThinkPad T30 (which still works!), it’s always worth a try. Symptoms sound to me like bad caps. I’d send the board in to whoever recapped your classic and I’ll bet the Duo will be good to go. Also, I hope you’ve fished the PRAM battery out of that 3400…

 

[AndyO]

The odd thing about this is that even when it plays dead, it is drawing power. I have it plugged into a power monitor and when it dropped into sleep it registered 4 watts after it had been at 30-32 while running. When it went dead, it still showed 4 watts. When it was dead at the start of this, it registered no power use at all, and 0 volts and 0 current, so it seems to be doing something!

It isn't a residual from the PSU or in the monitor itself, because I get zero when the 280 is unplugged, and when plugged in, it remains on 0 (actually, a fraction) until I press the power button. It also drops to 0 when I try the reset procedure, then comes back to 4w afterwards.

I know these power monitors aren't particularly accurate, but this one shows consistently the same results, so the numbers might be off, but the activity doesn't seem to be.

Bad caps are a possibility for sure, and I was planning on sending off the 230 board so it makes sense to send this too.

I can't think of anything I actually want to use this system for since the keyboard is truly awful, unless I get a Duo Dock for it, but it would be good to get it running reliably - these Duos are really rather cute.

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

The caps are in the voltage circuit, and it would make sense to me that it would be drawing power, but I’ll bet one or more of the voltage rails that the caps are responsible for are unstable/too low/high for the system to start. After letting it sit for a bit, the caps probably had a chance to warm up enough to get the system going. Green light of death is also usually caused by a power fault.

 

[mdeverhart]

Glad it’s semi-alive! Yes, definitely get the Duos recapped. As noted, the leaky caps are in the power supply and charging circuit, and bad things can happen if you get shorts in that area…

I’d also consider replacing the PRAM battery. I know feelings are mixed on the batteries (and the potential for leakage), but the power manager in the Duo seems to behave strangely if the battery is dead. I think that it will behave itself if you keep it connected to power after you use the button on the back to jumpstart it, but I wouldn’t swear to it. (That said, I’d keep it unplugged until you get it recapped and cleaned, just to avoid any power circuit shorts).

And yes, the keyboard is rough. Supposedly the last rev is a little better, if you can find one. I also found some improvement by lubing each of the keys with the same lubricant recommend for floppy drive repairs (Molykote EM-30L) - hopefully that’s safe for the keyboard plastic, it’s used on plastic components in the floppy drives, but using it for the keyboard is definitely experimental).

 

[CC_333]

I'm too lazy right now to look at earlier posts, but have you tried removing the Duo's main battery whilst trying to power it on?

I'm not sure about this particular model, but I know that some PowerBooks won't boot if there's a dead or severely discharged, but living main battery installed, but they'll happily run if said battery is removed.

c

 

[AndyO]

Thanks all - I'm reasonably confident that a new PRAM battery and a (competent) recap will help this machine. I haven't disassembled it, so have no idea what else might be wrong, but it shows all the signs of being very well looked after, so it isn't likely to have problems derived from abusive treatment at least - and failures in components can usually be repaired.

As for the main battery, I tried the one from the 230 since it wasn't showing signs of life with its own, and that made no apparent difference even though the 230 booted with it. Nor did trying it with no battery at all. Indeed, four different PSUs too. It's only today, with its original battery in, and my PDQ charger, that it has shown any sign of any kind of life. But, more importantly, at least now I know it can!

It was rather satisfying to see it up and running!

 

[AndyO]

2022 is coming to an end with the Duo 280c almost/nearly/not quite working and the final piece of my PowerBook jigsaw puzzle, a 170 in hopefully good working condition, on the way, but not due until Monday or so.

A 170 was my first PB, handed to me in very early 92, if I recall, so I thought it best to have another now that I might appreciate it more. But my best find of the year was the 5300cs, still sealed and thus never used, with a battery that still works.

But my favorite Mac of the year isn't a PowerBook. It's my previously North Pole Classic II, now restored to excellent running condition by the efficient and speedy service of @Amiga of Rochester. It has 2Gb of SCSI2SD storage, and now a vast 10Mb RAM, and is used every day, because it's very cool, and the AEK II is probably the best keyboard of all time.




Hard to believe they don't make Macs this good anymore!

 

[beachycove]

Yes, I like a Classic II as well. For certain uses, like pure word processing, it is a fine machine, which carries out its duties with a minimum of fuss. But System 7.5.3? Why, oh why on a Classic II?

Mind you, I have a vague recollection that the blessed eQuill, formerly of this parish, used 7.5.3 on a Classic II and thought it ran fine…. Presumably you‘ve got to turn off most of the new features, like AppleGuide?

 

[mdeverhart]

new PRAM battery

I wasn’t able to find any in stock anywhere, but I wrote up this little guide on building one. Let me know if you have any questions:

Post in thread 'Homebrew PRAM Batteries'
https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?threads/homebrew-pram-batteries.21429/post-412446

 

[AndyO]

..But System 7.5.3? Why, oh why on a Classic II..

It doesn't really run that well, no. But when I was setting up the SCSI2SD, I got rather suckered into all the talk about it being harder than a BlueSCSI, and somewhat tricky, so I used a pre-made image as a starter point. That had 7.5.3. I was also not sure I had a working 7.1 installer to start from scratch, because the installer I had used to try and get the BlueSCSI running kept failing.

7.5.3 runs, and it's OK, but rather bloated for this system. 7.1 would be better, and as it turns out, the installer for that on the FloppyEMU would likely have worked just fine.

I wasn’t able to find any in stock anywhere, but I wrote up this little guide on building one. Let me know if you have any questions:

Post in thread 'Homebrew PRAM Batteries'
https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?threads/homebrew-pram-batteries.21429/post-412446

Oh, that's great, thanks!! Certainly worth a try!

 

[AndyO]

...7.5.3 runs, and it's OK, but rather bloated for this system. 7.1 would be better, and as it turns out, the installer for that on the FloppyEMU would likely have worked just fine...

Well, it did and it didn't. After no small amount of trying, I finally replaced the 7.5.3 system with 7.1, installed from the FloppyEMU. The result is faster boot time, but performance wise, not all that much difference. RAM used dropped from 2,150 in 7.5.3 to 1,280 in 7.1, so there's that.

 

[joshc]

You could use 6.0.8L instead which is way more performant and there are enough CDEVs and INITs available to extend its ability to act a lot more like System 7. I know you will lose the ability to run a lot of software but again there are also lots of things that run fine on System 6. It’s just unbelievably fast compared to System 7.

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

I just got system 6 running on my PowerBook 145 (normally on 7.5.3), and it boots in about 10 seconds. Wicked fast, and this is on just about the slowest hard drive I've seen. Can't imagine the boot time if I had solid state storage in it.

 

[joshc]

I just got system 6 running on my PowerBook 145 (normally on 7.5.3), and it boots in about 10 seconds. Wicked fast, and this is on just about the slowest hard drive I've seen. Can't imagine the boot time if I had solid state storage in it.

I think it’s about 2-4 seconds with an SD device in a IIfx.

 

[AndyO]

I do quite like the idea of regressing to 6.0.8 - though I can't say I remember it clearly from all that time ago when I ran it on my 512 and Plus. I do remember it being pretty quick. 7.1 is fine on the Classic II though, and compatible with just about all the software I want on the system. The only real slowness comes in Word 6 and Excel 5, and even then, it's much faster than scrolling around on a TRS-80 M100 or 4P!

The Classic II was not exactly the most rapid system even in its day, but it runs faster than the SE did that I used back then and I'm replicating now.

If my BlueSCSI was working reliably, I'd experiment with 6.0.8 on that in the Classic. I may make a System 6 blank for the SCSI2SD in the Classic II for the next time I open it up, just to see!

 

[Crutch]

6.0.8 is lighting fast and with MultiFinder and a handy batch of extensions like StickyClick is highly usable. I love it.

 

[AndyO]

It is very tempting to give 6.0.8 a try and remind myself what it is like to use. I may use the Classic as my experimental system, but I'll need to get something more reliable to run it than the BlueSCSI I have in there at the moment. I'd try another SCSI2SD now I know how to get one working, but that's in the Classic II and they're not available.

 

[mdeverhart]

FWIW, the ZuluSCSI is made by the same folks as the SCSI2SD, and as I understand it, it shares the SCSI protocol code base with the S2SD, though it’s more like the BlueSCSI in how the SD card / images are handled. It also has bus transceivers like the S2SD, if that’s important to you. I don’t have any experience with it, but it might be worth checking out if you’re looking for something different.

ZuluSCSI

 

[AndyO]

FWIW, the ZuluSCSI is made by the same folks as the SCSI2SD, and as I understand it, it shares the SCSI protocol code base with the S2SD, though it’s more like the BlueSCSI in how the SD card / images are handled. It also has bus transceivers like the S2SD, if that’s important to you. I don’t have any experience with it, but it might be worth checking out if you’re looking for something different.

ZuluSCSI

Yes, I was just thinking I may splash out on a ZuluSCSI... Might be useful to have a play with one anyway, since I can see me needing one or two for PowerBooks sooner or later.

Speaking of which...

Well, well. My first ever PowerBook was a 170, given to me when I joined the university's faculty of management and business. I never really liked it, and rarely used it, which is naturally why I decided I must have another one now.

It arrived today. Amazingly good condition, and seems to be running well. It's been up for over an hour with no sign that I can see of tunneling - yet at least. The keyboard is a little soggy in comparison to the 145B, but still not at all bad, and the display is of course really crisp and sharp. Not a fan of the '8-ball' trackball though... I do have a spare normal one however.


This one should be the last PB. Famous last words, of course, but it is rather difficult to beat one of these!