32-bit Clean ROM vs MODE32

[Sunoo]

I have an SE/30 that I'm working on, can someone help me understand the difference between MODE32 and swapping in a 32-bit clean ROM (I believe usually imaged from a IIsi)?

According to a site I've found ( http://home.earthlink.net/~gamba2/os8_se30.html ), it seems like with a IIsi ROM in an SE/30, you need to tweak some operating system files? If that's the case, it seems cleaner to me to just stick with MODE32, but I'd really like some help understanding. It would be nice to know what those values that site wants me to change mean too, instead of just blindly changing one unknown value to another.

 

[just.in.time]

I personally wouldn’t bother with another Mac’s ROM. I use MODE32 myself as it accomplishes the same exact goal I had, more than 8mb of RAM (I have 20mb).

The ROMinator II is also a very neat piece of tech. It replaces the factory ROM SIMM. It has a built in bit of space for a disk image, allowing you to boot directly from the ROM. Neat feature to have. Especially for troubleahooting. And of course, it gives you a clean 32bit ROM as well. At some point I’d like to pick one up for my SE/30.

 

[Sunoo]

Yea, if I changed the ROM, it’d be a device like that, but my understanding is that you flash a IIsi ROM to it, and that could require tweaks to the OS for it to work?

I don’t really have much need for a ROM disk though. My big annoyance right now is boot time while it runs the RAM check.

 

[just.in.time]

From what I understand, the ROMinator, as it comes, can be used out of the box with the SE/30 on earlier system versions... i think up to 7.1 or 7.5.3. IIRC. Also, I could have sworn that there was a way to disable the RAM check with a ROMinator as well. But again, I don’t have one so I really can’t speak from experience. Maybe someone else will chime in.

Just curious, how much RAM do you have in your SE/30?

 

[Sunoo]

Yea, the RAM check is a patch than can be applied to any programmable ROM. From what I’ve read you can only run up to 7.1 without modification.

Unless I’m missing something, the only real benefit to running 32-bit clean ROM is that you can run 7.6.1, but I’m not sure I need to?

And I have 128 MB of RAM, because I got a good deal on it.

 

[just.in.time]

Oh yeah, 128mb would take a while to check.

 

[Sunoo]

It's honestly not too bad, but it is something I wouldn't mind skipping in the future.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

This is the first I've heard of tweakage being necessary in the IIsi for anything but running wildly out of spec OS versions? Interesting, maybe that might be the root of my problems with clean ROMs?

First off, I LOVE my ROM-inator II, worked like a charm getting my new IIci board tested without HDD complications.

That said, I've had compatibility problems with a couple of VidCards with IIsi, IIfx and the ROM-inator II ROM SIMMs in my recapped SE/30 that I've not had with the stock ROM. I've decided that MODE32 will be the way to go for my setup for the time being, I've yet to find a problem with those cards running. I also have to check for MODE32 on the IIcx drive I've been blindly using.

I'll probably be sticking with some flavor of 7.0.1 or 7.1 on my /30 for authenticity's sake.

I'll have to see if 7.5.3 might be the compatibility problem, thanks for the info, great thread!

 

[Sunoo]

Sounds like what I'd want is a SE/30 ROM with the RAM check patched out and stick with MODE32 than.

Off topic, but what exactly is the difference between 7.1 and 7.5.x? I've poked around for a list of changes, but come up empty.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Dunno of a list of changes, there's probably one somewhere listing them from 128K 0.97 to MDD 9.2.2. If there's not, that'd be a fabulous project.

For me it's a question of the eras I used the different Classic OS versions IRL. I still haven't switched to OSX after hating the initial release. I've not been one to upgrade for anything not absolutely necessary. I skipped over the entire 7.6/8 era going from 7.5.whatever straight to 9.1 on the Digital Audio.

I use what feels right/the way I used on my production machines back in the day. That'd be 7.0.1 if I'd had an SE/30, that's what powered the IIx/Rocket. Never bought 7.1 back when, but I'm trying to be more flexible now. :blink:

 

[Sunoo]

Gotcha. My SE/30 had 7.1Pro on it when I got it, and it's running much better with 7.5.5, but that could just be because it was a clean install not gummed up with who knows what extensions and whatnot.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

I bought a set of floppies for some version of 7.1 or other on eBay to set my IIsi/Rocket up with the Max OS compatible with running on the Rocket. That's the one I'll be running on the SE/30.

Sounds to me like you'll wind up wanting a ROM-inator with the SE/30 ROM image, RAM check disabled and a customized boot drive with your OS of choice and MODE32 ready to rock and roll.

I wish I were competent to build the OS, driver/extension/utility/application image setups and then program my own ROM-inator II if the ever changing specs stabilize. :/

 

[Sunoo]

Sounds to me like you'll wind up wanting a ROM-inator with the SE/30 ROM image, RAM check disabled and a customized boot drive with your OS of choice and MODE32 ready to rock and roll.

That's basically my plan. Either the ROM-inator or the MACSIMM (https://gglabs.us/node/2019), I'll have to do some more poking into that. I'm not sure I really need a ROM disk anyways, but we'll see.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Having a stable, baseline setup with standard Apps & the kitcken sink on a bootable ROM disk would be my notion of heaven on a stick.

If I need to buy MEGAs for IIsi and SE/30 that's exactly what I'll do. gglabs and their knock-offs rub me the wrong way.

 

[Sunoo]

gglabs will sell it programmed with what I want though, saving the cost of the programmer.

 

[Gorgonops]

One thing I'd throw out there: I have *vague* recollections of at least one thread where someone who was using a 32-bit clean ROM in an SE/30 (I forget if it was a IIsi or IIfx SIMM) said that having it in there broke A/UX. If you have any interest in A/UX I have to wonder if *any* sort of non-standard patching might be an issue for it. Or the posters of those threads were having other issues entirely, who knows. A/UX is notoriously a little "iffy" on the SE/30.

 

[Sunoo]

Good to know, but I have no strong desire to run A/UX on my machine, and I don't really see a reason to. I would guess the RAM skip would be fine there, but I don't really know how deep it hooks in, so you might be right.

 

[ktkm]

gglabs will sell it programmed with what I want though, saving the cost of the programmer.

If you want the original start-up chime and feel? I’ve would go for the GGLabs IIsi ROM. I have both the ROM-Inator II and the GGLabs ROM, and the SE/30 can be a little picky regarding the ROM-socket and the ROM-Inator II.

 

[Sunoo]

Yea, I absolutely don't want the changed chime and logo and such that the ROM-inator seems to do by default.