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SE/30 + Asante Ethernet: close, but no cigar


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Hi again guys,

 

I'm working from home this week with a pretty light workload, so I'm finally getting to apply some real time to getting this SE/30 talking to the world. I've got it set up on our kitchen counter and connected via Ethernet cable directly to a Netgear Wifi extender. The Wifi extender has a sensing Ethernet port and should be okay talking to a 10-megabit device. The LED on the Ethernet card on the back of the machine shows occasional activity. I've got the MacTCP control panel set as directed higher in this thread (basically set to grab an IP dynamically via DHCP and with the correct Class C subnet), and I'm testing with the three network-capable programs on the machine (Netscape 2.0, Fetch, and NCSA Telnet).

 

Currently, I'm stuck. When I look at the MacTCP control panel, it shows my IP as "192.0.0.0" until one of my three apps tries to connect, at which time that IP changes to "192.0.0.22" which cannot be correct - based on my router settings, it should be getting a 192.168.x.x address. None of the apps are able to connect, with Fetch timing out while connecting to my local FTP server and Telnet + Netscape both giving their equivalents of DNS errors if I try to browse to a URL or known-good Telnet host. Also, the status page for my Wifi extender never shows anything connected to Ethernet.

 

Any other suggestions? Obviously getting the actual Asante drivers onto the machine is probably going to help (still working on that - I think I just need to locate one of the old-style Mac serial cables so I can download the drivers on my Wallstreet PowerBook and then AppleTalk them to the SE/30), but from everything I've read here and elsewhere, it *should* be working with the setup I've currently got.

 

Feels crazymaking to be so close!

Edited by Huxley
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You're on the right track. The Asante disk will install the correct drivers for the card and ensure you have Open Transport networking available (accessible via Macintosh HD > apple extras > network software selector) and the TCP/IP control panel (different from MacTCP.) 

 

Is the floppy drive in your PowerBook working?

Edited by jrwil
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Good advice, thanks. In the time since I posted my update a couple hours ago, I've tried following the directions here for MacTCP (and I've assigned a specific IP to my SE30 on my router), and now Netscape gives me a "Unable to create network socket" error. 

 

The PowerBook is "new" in the sense that I just bought it from a seller here, so I'm not sure about the floppy drive. Good point though - I'll either find a serial cable or just see if I can dig up some floppies somewhere. 

 

Frustration aside, this is fun! :)

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You may want to look in your extender's configuration to see if there's a way to force the Ethernet port to 10Mbps and half duplex. Some of these old Asante and Farallon cards seem to send "junk" Ethernet frames that cause autonegotiation on 10/100 and 10/100/1000 ports to fail. The modern device will usually show no cable connection, even when there's a lamp lit on the old Mac card. I think the card is sending the "junk" and waiting for an echo to determine if it has a connection.

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The one piece of software that is going to help you the most here is the Asante EtherTalk installer, available here on this dude's site as asante5_6_1.sea.hqx — https://www.fsf.net/~adam/

Hi again! Quick question: is anyone else here able to access that link? The site appears to be dead for me, and the only other "download links" I'm finding around the web for that specific file are spammy "driver archive" sites that don't actually have the file (which you can only verify after clicking through a bunch of BS ads and 'puzzles'). Anyone have a working link for that archive?

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So here's an interesting update:

 

After a full day of fun-but-fruitless tinkering, I decided that maybe my software isn't the root of the issue here. I just cracked open the SE/30 and took a close look at the Asante PDS card, daughter card, the cable, and the Mac's logic board. The Asante gear appears to be in good shape, and as best I can tell by matching the faded white paint-dots on the cables and connectors, the cable has been seated properly all along. 

 

When I extracted the logic board though, I spotted something odd: a definitely-hand-soldered patch on the IC labeled "UB10" connecting one of the UB10 pins to a small yellow block labeled "C3". Here's a quick album I just uploaded so you can see what I'm talking about.

 

Any idea what purpose this patch is serving? I popped a fresh PRAM batter in and reassembled everything and I'm back where I started (functional Mac, semi-functional Asante card that blinks but doesn't ever seem to connect).

 

Feels like every time I get close, something else pops up here, but I suppose that's the fun of this project! Also, I'm a dummy and the "serial cables" I bought yesterday aren't actually serial cables, so I'm limited to shuttling files from my iMac > Wallstreet > SE/30 on single floppy disks... sigh.

 

:)

Edited by Huxley
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Hi,

 

I assembled and repaired that SE/30 for Kendall, and I swapped the logic board because the one he provided SimasiMac'ed, and a simple recap didn't seem to get it going again. That jumper is a bypass for C3 (which is a surface-mount tantalum capacitor) to UB10 (sound chip), as the solder pad had rotted away, and the remaining trace was a lost cause, so I just probed it out with my continuity checker and stuck the jumper there.

 

There were no other problems with that board, fortunately, although sound will die if that jumper is removed.
 

Regarding the network card, I believe I installed the cables for the breakout board properly, but it's possible something got damaged (I swapped that as well, because the original blew a capacitor when I powered it on).

 

c

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Hi,

 

I assembled and repaired that SE/30 for Kendall, and I swapped the logic board because the one he provided SimasiMac'ed, and a simple recap didn't seem to get it going again. That jumper is a bypass for C3 (which is a surface-mount tantalum capacitor) to UB10 (sound chip), as the solder pad had rotted away, and the remaining trace was a lost cause, so I just probed it out with my continuity checker and stuck the jumper there.

 

There were no other problems with that board, fortunately, although sound will die if that jumper is removed.

 

Regarding the network card, I believe I installed the cables for the breakout board properly, but it's possible something got damaged (I swapped that as well, because the original blew a capacitor when I powered it on).

 

c

Thanks for the background info! Kendall just filled me in on the same info, and I've got a bit of whiplash - I was initially worried that I had some hacked-together motherboard in here, just waiting to short out and die... but now I'm delighted to learn that I've got a well-tested and recapped board, ready to hum along for another 30 years...

 

Also, some positive news: I’ve been fighting the Asante card all day with effectively zero success: I managed to shuttle the correct Asante driver package from my iMac to my old PowerBook, and from there to the SE/30 via floppy… but it made no difference. I went on a multi-hour detour trying to get an oddball SCSI CD-RW drive working (still haven’t quite gotten that one pinned down), and then I went back to the Asante. I gave up trying to get it talking to my router or iMac, and instead started trying to get it talking directly to the PowerBook using AppleTalk-over-Ethernet (aka EtherTalk), since moving the 19(!) disk images for the MacOS 7.5.3 update from the PowerBook to the SE/30 was agonizingly slow - definitely a good incentive to get some basic machine-to-machine communication going.

 
Every time I got the software set properly, the PowerBook would throw up a vague / annoying error message (“An error occurred attempting to use ethernet”) and it would stall out. I started diving deep into Google’s newsgroup archives, and found a 20+ year old clue: the Ethernet chip that Apple used in some PowerBooks and Performa’s of that era would *only* allow AppleTalk to be enabled if they *first* received a “signal good, ready to transmit” signal from the other end of the cable… which the SE/30 was probably waiting for too. They sat there like two introverts on a blind date, both waiting for the other to start talking. Arhghggh. 
 
On a whim I connected them both to an old Linksys Ethernet switch I pulled from my junk bin… AND IT WORKED. Holy crap. I still haven’t been able to get the SE/30 to actually pass any TCP/IP (aka Internet) data at all, but just the fact that it’s talking to the PowerBook over Ethernet is a great sign that the Asante card is physically good and I’m just wrestling with some wonky software.
 
Whew!
 
:)
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Excellent!

 

Since I have an SE/30 with ethernet, I should get myself one of those old switches so I can use that port for something (to that end, what model is your switch?)

 

c

Mine is a Netgear "FS105" 5-port 10/100MBPS "Fast Ethernet Switch," aka "the one I found at the bottom of the e-waste pile in my old office a few years ago." It's small and works beautifully for these sorts of projects, so I highly recommend it if you can find one cheap.

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  • 5 weeks later...

Short answer: 

Musashi 3.4.1.

 

Long answer: 

Email on the SE/30 is tricky. No clients (to my knowledge) support SSL, required by all modern email servers, and that limits you right out of the gate. The bare minimum modern standard you need is SMTP authentication, and only a handful of clients for System 7.5.5 support it (Musashi, SweetMail, Green, Mulberry).

 

Even if you have one of those clients, you need a modern email service that will let you log in without SSL, which do exist, although who knows for how long. I pointed a subdomain I have to a service called ZazzoWeb, which is about $2 a month for an email address. I forwarded my Gmail to that address, and set my Gmail address as the "Reply-To" in the email client on the SE/30. It works.

 

Others have successfully implemented an SSL tunnel to get their Gmail on their 68k Mac with an older client, but I gave up on it. The upside to my method is you don't have to have a helper Mac. There is also a utility floating around called Baton Mail that was used to add SMTP Auth capabilities to older Mac clients by sending outgoing mail to Baton Mail, but I had limited success with it.

 

Musashi works very well with only minor hiccups and quirks. I prefer SweetMail which you can customize to no end, but the typing lag is pretty bad, even with max RAM.

 

Cheers.

 

Hi guys I am looking for a copy of Mushashi 3.4.1 for the SE/30.  Can anyone provide an image?

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Hi guys I am looking for a copy of Mushashi 3.4.1 for the SE/30.  Can anyone provide an image?

 

Here are the two archives I have lying around. Unzip this file on a modern mac to get the Old World archives.

 

Since writing the comment you quoted, I was able to get Stunnel working on my primary Mac using the config file another forum member posted in this thread. If Gmail is your goal, that eliminates the need for another email address/forwarding/etc.

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Here are the two archives I have lying around. Unzip this file on a modern mac to get the Old World archives.

 

Since writing the comment you quoted, I was able to get Stunnel working on my primary Mac using the config file another forum member posted in this thread. If Gmail is your goal, that eliminates the need for another email address/forwarding/etc.

 

Thanks JrWil, I will give those a shot.  I tried to use Eudora Lite but the configuration settings are too limited and do not let me specificy POP server and Port information so I can't use my STunnel setup on the RaspberryPi.  I am hoping that Mushashi allows for finer tuning of POP/SMTP server IPs, port, and password authentication.

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Would anyone have the asanta driver on floppy i could buy, im having difficulty been able being able to get it onto me se/30 :(

 

Neal

There are two versions of the Asante drivers that I've seen online, and the Mac Driver Museum has them both. If you want a floppy image for writing the disk with dd in OS X, I can extract one of these and make it into a disk image on my PowerMac G4. Then you wouldn't need to pay anyone for a physical disk. I used to have a setup for using SheepShaver to make floppies for my SE/30, but it was pretty convoluted.

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Thanks boctor, so how would i get the disc imagine to the the se/30, sorry for sounding simple im new to the old mac thing?

 

Dd?

 

dd is a utility from Unix that can write Macintosh (or really any) disks. On Windows, there's ImageWriter for making floppies. They both read a regular binary format, sometimes saved with the extension ".img". I could make a binary image containing the Asante installer, for either a 1440k or 800k Macintosh floppy, depending on what you need. I'd also need to know which Asante driver you want. I think the later versioned one works the best, or so I've read.

 

Then you'd just need to write the image file to a floppy on Windows, Linux, or OS X. Really anything with a floppy writing program that can read raw data. The result would be a normal Mac floppy, readable by the SE/30.

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