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Iamanamma

Solid State Drive for G3?

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28 minutes ago, trag said:

Check your display device (monitor, LCD panel) and cable and any adapter.  

I tried Macintosh 12" RGB monitor, known to work, on the built in video. Nada.  I tried a Dell Flat screen with a VGA style plug on the ATI card.  The ATI card has ONLY a VGA type connector on it, no Apple.  Nada.  I can grab another monitor, I have several spares.

 

28 minutes ago, trag said:

Now if the video card was originally a PC card and was hacked with one of the "reduced" firmware packages to work on a Mac, then it might need drivers.

Wouldn't know how to answer this, so I took a picture.  

28 minutes ago, trag said:

Also, it is possible that the video card is in some weird state/configuration where it's trying to drive the display at an unsupported resolution.    You may wish to zap the PRAM (hold down cmd-opt-p-r simultaneously) at power up/reboot.  

 

As long as I have been playing with Macs, you think I would remember to zap the PRAM.  Thanks.  That's next.

28 minutes ago, trag said:

Finally, but maybe this should be first, if you have a VRAM module installed on the motherboard, check that it's installed  properly, hasn't popped loose.  Perhaps clean the contacts.

 

Again, don't know how to answer that. So I took another pic. Also, thanks for the link.  That could be useful in the future!

G3 Back.JPG

Innards 2.JPG

Innards 1.JPG

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37 minutes ago, Iamanamma said:

As long as I have been playing with Macs, you think I would remember to zap the PRAM.  Thanks.  That's next.

Now that's the first tim THAT has ever happened.  I double checked to make sure I had the right keys pressed down, but I am only hearing the startup chime once.  I am not getting a second chime.  I switched out the PRAM battery.  I switched keyboards.  G3 will start up, I get one chime, no more.  Something is definitely wrong here.

 

Edited by Iamanamma
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On 10/4/2019 at 3:06 PM, trag said:

The ATI video card, if it is a Macintosh version, should produce video without any drivers.    Drivers enable acceleration and sometimes additional resolutions, but any video card with Mac firmware should produce images at boot time, without loading disk based drivers.    Hence, I suspect your display device, rather than the video card.

It took a while to find it, but the ATI Rage card is definitely the Mac version.  http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=4257.0 is a lookup of ATI Card part numbers, and mine was on it.  I am still getting no video out of the G3.  I tried zapping the PRAM (which will not chime more than once), resetting the NVRAM and resetting via the CUDA switch.  I looked up VRAM modules, I don't see anything that looks like that.  What I have in my PCI slots are as follows an audio card with telephone jack, a Firewire card, and the ATI Rage 128. I have attached pictures front & back of the Rage card.  There is some yellow residue on the 2 foil squares on the board, but aside from that, everything is looking pretty good. There is definitely something wrong here, and it's beyond my skill set to figure what it is.  I have a couple more beige G3s.  I am going to haul out another and see if I can get it to work.

Rage back.JPG

RageFront.JPG

Edited by Iamanamma
Added pictures and details

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Moot now, but if you have a VRAM module (may be called GRAM in Beige G3) it would be under the modem that is sticking sideways out of your sound card.  Behind the voltage regulator and between the RAM and sound/personality card.

 

Also moot, but another thought I had was perhaps the 12" monitor doesn't do 640 X 480?   I think there was a small Apple monitor that was fixed at something lower like 512 X ?

 

 

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I have a Rage128 as well. Dang good card that's worked in all of my PCI macs wonderfully. I want to get a few more so I'm not playing musical video card all the time though.

 

I'm baffled by that monitor business as well. Apple Spec says it should support 512 x 384 internally. I wonder if that's just for 8.0. Is there software cutoff for that in 8.5–onward?

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22 hours ago, trag said:

Moot now, but if you have a VRAM module (may be called GRAM in Beige G3) it would be under the modem that is sticking sideways out of your sound card.  Behind the voltage regulator and between the RAM and sound/personality card.

 

Also moot, but another thought I had was perhaps the 12" monitor doesn't do 640 X 480?   I think there was a small Apple monitor that was fixed at something lower like 512 X ?

 

 

Not moot any more.  Dang thing is acting up AGAIN.  I haven't been using the Apple monitor, I've been using a Dell flat screen.  I pulled out the sound/modem card and the VRAM would go into that small whitish frame, wouldn't it?  Nope, nothing there.

VRAM Slot.JPG

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There should be 2MB soldered on-board—those two big ICs beneath where an upgrade module would go in the white, sideways holder. The expansion will take you up to 6MB total with a 4MB module installed. SO there's enough on the board to support a monitor. Curious that yours still doesn't work with an Apple monitor.

 

Do you have an older install CD? the 8.0 discs? be aware that the ROM ver. will determine which image will be bootable (I went through several to get my beige MT to boot). The older disc is just my theory about 8.5+ not supporting 512 x 384 any longer, but it's more supposition than anything.

Edited by jessenator
errata

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Any recommendations for a good place to buy replacement IDE/ATA ribbon cables?  It's going to be not fun to thread them through the case like you have to on the minitowers, but if I can pick up a couple for cheaps, it would be worth it to see if that fixes what isn't working.  Would love a line on a new PSU or two as well.

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1 hour ago, Iamanamma said:

Any recommendations for a good place to buy replacement IDE/ATA ribbon cables?  It's going to be not fun to thread them through the case like you have to on the minitowers, but if I can pick up a couple for cheaps, it would be worth it to see if that fixes what isn't working.  Would love a line on a new PSU or two as well.

Are you actually in Warren Ohio?

 

Anyway the Beige G3's used the old 40 pin ATA cables that tended to be longer and I think you can still find those on ebay. Most cables you see today are the shorter 80 pin type which will still work on older systems but are shorter. Years ago I had to track down a cable for my B&W G3 since it was a custom super long one and needed to be OEM (for the CDROM maybe forget what it was for).

 

 

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On 10/8/2019 at 1:53 PM, trag said:

Also moot, but another thought I had was perhaps the 12" monitor doesn't do 640 X 480?   I think there was a small Apple monitor that was fixed at something lower like 512 X ?

The 12-inch color monitor does 512x384, and the 12-inch grayscale display does 640x480. I'm around 90% sure system 9 will recognize and work with both on built-in mac video.

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I had all sorts of trouble getting my Beige G3 to install and boot MacOS from SSD until I replaced the 40 wire cable with a newer 80 wire one. You might have to modify the new cable too since the mac doesn't have the key pin removed from the IDE pin header on the motherboard.

 

The beige g3 tower is also not terribly difficult to mod to use a standard ATX power supply, I have a brand new one in mine. You have to rewire some pins in the power cable and make sure the jumpers are set correctly on the motherboard to avoid damaging it. I followed this guide: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/atx-psu-conversion-powermac-g3.1739059/

 

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1 hour ago, Unknown_K said:

Because I am in Youngstown, odd seeing somebody that close here.

Sure is.  It's great to know there's someone else nearby who still uses older Macs!

Edited by Iamanamma

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1 hour ago, error1 said:

You might have to modify the new cable too since the mac doesn't have the key pin removed from the IDE pin header on the motherboard.

I have no idea how to modify cables.  Know any good tutorials?

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The thing to know about most (all?) power supply connectors is that they are a plastic housing filled with pins.

 

The pins and the housing are sold separately.    The pins crimp onto the ends of wires.   Then the pins snap into the housing.   There's usually a little "latch" or prong (or two) that hold the pin in the housing after it has been inserted.

 

So, if  you want to rearrange the wires on a connector, you can carefully remove the relevant pins from the housing (depending on the brand/model of housing there are often dedicated tools available, though improvising works too) and insert them in the hole to which you wish to move them.

 

Of course, new pins can be bought and crimped onto the ends of cut wires and new housings purchased. 

 

The trick in the latter case is knowing which housing/pins you need.

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It was a complete nightmare to remove the pins from my new ATX supply to rewire the plug, even with the right pin removal tools from ebay it took at least an hour just to learn a working method to release the pins. 

 

If i had to do it again I would much rather buy an extension cable like in the instructions I linked, cut the wires that have to be changed and solder them back together while leaving the plug pins alone.

 

As long as you're not in a hurry the proper cable is quite cheap to get, something like https://www.amazon.com/24-Pin-Detachable-Extension-Conversion-Cable/dp/B01N5MWYX1/ with a 20/24 convertible plug and color coded cables makes the process easier.

 

You'll need to buy a new 120mm system fan as well, the original fan is powered by a custom pin header on the standard power supply. If you get a modern quiet fan your G3 will be almost silent. I am really happy with how mine turned out :)

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Well, I am back inside the beast, and it appears there is something seriously wrong with the CD-ROM.  The vidoe will not start up if the CD-ROM is plugged into either of the ATA ports.  This is going to complicate getting the OS onto the new SD Card on the SCSI Bus.  The Zip drive and the floppy drive both work, thanks to a Youtube video on how to take your floppy drive apart and clean it.  I Have a USB card for this G3, I just hadn't put it back in.  I also have a USB CD-ROM.  I will figure this all out yet.

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This sounds a little bit like something that happened with mine. I'm trying to recall because I didn't write it down, but, it was either when I installed a mis-configured SCSI2SD with wrong termination settings or when I installed a faulty hard disk drive.

 

Did you end up using the OWC SSD or on a SCSI2SD?

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On 10/18/2019 at 3:56 PM, Cory5412 said:

Did you end up using the OWC SSD or on a SCSI2SD?

I am going with the SCSI2SD.  It actually was a piece of cake putting it in and firing it up.  My video and PRAM zapping problems all appear to be related to either that CD-ROM or its ribbon cable, because my issues start whenever it is plugged in.  It doesn't matter which IDE port.  The PATA hard drive I have works just fine off of wither port, although it's kind of slow and pretty full.  I bought a 512 GB SD card.  That should give him some space.

 

My biggest problem right now is trying to figure out how to get the operating system onto the SCSI2SD.  My install disk for 8.5 is on a CD.  I have a USB card in the G3 and a USB CD-RW, but I can't seem to get it to work.  The CD-RW may be too much newer.    

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USB cards will not boot a Beige G3.

 

For the SCSI2SD - this sounds a lot like my issues. Are you using a SCSI cable with termination? any external devices? Is termination enabled or disabled as appropriate in the device settings?

 

I'll be really honest, I'm about 20% sure I did, in fact, get the SCSI2SD (v6 in my case) running in my Beige G3, but I have no recollection at all as to what I did to do it.

 

To get it working on my 8600, I ended up using a scsi cable that was already in the machine, as opposed to one I brought in.

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For what it's worth I'm not using any SCSI device at all in my beige g3. It boots from a 120gb ssd (partitioned as 4g,4g,50g,60g) through a SATA-IDE bridge and the CDROM is an IDE cdrw model I grabbed from an old G4 tower. You should be able to install a wide range of old generic IDE cdroms i think. I would save the expensive SCSI2SD for an older Mac without IDE.

 

As for modifying the IDE cable I had a tiny 1mm drill bit and carefully drilled out the plastic from the connector so I could push it into the motherboard. The blocked hole is pin 20, you only have to drill the motherboard end of the cable since the IDE devices don't have that pin at all

 

2xD4cBM.jpg

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