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Dimitris1980

Power Macintosh G3 Minitower Upgrades

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On 1/3/2018 at 10:00 PM, Cory5412 said:

Later models came with the 4MB SIMM preinstalled, and are definitely good for Millions at 1280x1024. I haven't tested it, but I believe that they will do Millions at 1600x1200 as well. I can bring my Beige by the office at some point and hook it up to the 2007FP there and give it a go.

I'll have to give it a go, just checked my Plexi Boxed Beige and it has the 4MB VRAM card on board! [:)]

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I believe there are one or two PCI sound cards for Mac, I wouldn't bother. Most Mac gaming targeted whatever the cheap or highly available Performa/iMac of the day was, and so it's unlikely the games you want to play on Mac will have had like, high-resolution audio files or whatever it is the card will claim to do better.

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Interesting. I will test the powermac when I return from vacation. If it works I will try to put stuff on it. My purpose is to make it faster than my Imac G3 if it is possible. 

 

IMac configuration

G3 at 500 mhz 

1 gb ram 

40 gb hard drive 

16mb ati video card 

Slot cd Rom drive

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Bear in mind that the ATi Radeon 9200 came out in 2002 and, requires, if I am not mistaken, Mac OS 9.2.2 to be made full use of.

The Beige G3 is from 1998. It has a G3 300MHz processor and a 66MHz bus.

If you play games from 2002 on this machine, even with an ATi Radeon 9200, they may run slowly.

If you play games from 1998 (or before) with a 9200, they will run smoothly and quickly in Mac OS 9.2.2 (and maybe lower versions of the system software).

If you are going to stick to games around, say, 1999 and before, a 16Mb or 32MB card like the ATi Radeon 7000, Voodoo 2 or Voodoo 3, ATi Rage and whatever nVidia had around that time will all do you very well.

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So. I took my powermac from the basement. I was hearing the start up sound but no screen. Until i disconnected the one stick of 128 mb ram (now it has 256 mb ram) and it worked but the disk appeared because no hard drive. The dvd drive was also not connected so i plugged it in but i couldn't boot with apple legacy cd that i have. Then i tried some hard drives  from Imac G3 and suddenly with the 20gb hard drive the macintosh booted at 9.2 OS (i had this OS installed for my imac g3, also has a version of mac os 10). It is a powerpc 333mhz, 256 ram and video card with 6mb ram. It was really fast in mac os 9.2, i tried some installed games. I can say that quake 2 ran greatly. For the monitor i used the macintosh color display. It needs a pram battery because it resets the date and time. After all these i couldn't do anything. I tried again the dvd with no success, i disconnected again the hard drive to test others with no success again. I would like to ask if it is important which cables do you have to use for the connection of the dvd and the hard drive. The only thing that i managed is to connect my 20gb hard drive but a white screen comes with the following:

 

open firmware 2,4

to continue booting the macos type:

BYE (return)

to continue boot from the default boot device type:

BOOT (return)

For open firmware serial I/O type:

TTYA IO (return)

ok

 

when i type "BYE" it starts

when i type "BOOT" a msg comes up"boot CLAIM failed

when i type TTYA IO the screen becomes black

 

i disconnected all again (no hard drives, dvd etc) and left the mac with the 256 mb of ram but at this time the mac couldn't start, only black screen

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Well, i connected the hard drive with the master/slave ide cable and with the P3 cable and it works. I reset the date and the battery works. I still haven't managed to run both hard drive dvd drive. The dvd drive works when the ide cable is connected and with the p3 or p2 cable but only when the hard drive is disconnected.

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Is the hard drive and DVD drive connected to the same cable?  If they are and it doesn't work then perhaps you have one of the earlier G3s that didnt support master and slave but rather only one device per cable.  

Edited by Zippy Zapp

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Ati Radeon 9000 works with OS 9.2 native and is the last model to do so.

 

Oddities

Early Beige G3s could not support slave drives, as these machines (generally) had Rev. 1 motherboards and Rev. A ROMs. Later Beige G3s with Rev. 2 motherboards and Rev. B or C ROMs do support slave drives. Although the inability to support slave drives under the Classic Mac OS is inherent in the Rev. A ROM, OS X has a mechanism for supplementing the ROM code and allowing the use of slave drives.

You can use the Apple System Profiler to identify which ROM version you have:

  • Rev. 1: $77D.40F2
  • Rev. 2: $77D.45F1
  • Rev. 3: $77D.45F2

Because of its issues, we consider the Beige G3 with a Rev. 1 motherboard a Limited Mac.

If you have an IDE hard drive larger than 8 GB, you should partition is so that the first partition is under 8 GB in size (for simplicity, we suggest 7 GB). Failure to do this could eventually result in an unbootable computer, as all system files must be within the first 8 GB of drive space. These Macs may work successfully with larger drives for a while, but once any system files goes outside of the first 8 GB of space, you’ll have nothing but problems. This applies to both Mac OS X and the Classic Mac OS.

Mac OS X

If you have a hard drive over 8 GB in size, you must partition it or you will not be able to install Mac OS X. If you are creating the partition within OS X, it must be smaller than 7.4 GB as reported by Disk Utility (because sometimes a GB is billion bytes and sometimes it’s 1,073,741,824 bytes); we suggest simply setting it at 7 GB to avoid having to redo the whole installation if the partition ends up bigger than specified (it happens). Mac OS X must be completely within the first 8 GB of space on your hard drive or you will not be able to run OS X.

You can only boot OS X from a “master” drive in the Beige G3. This applies to hard drives and CD-ROM drives. If the CD-ROM is set to slave, you will not be able to install OS X. If the hard drive is set to slave, you will not be able to boot from it.

Non-Apple upgrades and peripherals (such as unsupported USB devices, replacement drives, and third-party memory) may cause problems when installing or booting into Mac OS X, so you may need to remove them.

Be sure to read and follow Apple’s “Read Before You Install” instructions to increase the likelihood of getting OS X installed and running on the first try.

The Beige G3 is not officially supported under OS X 10.3 Panther, but it does work with 10.2.8 Jaguar and earlier. Panther can be installed using XPostFacto 3, although built-in video is not currently supported.

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Finally i managed to make it work properly although it has some issues. I have this computer at the basement since 2009. A friend gave it to me and told me then that it does not work.

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I have both a flashed Radeon 9200 and a Radeon 7000 Mac Edition.  IMO the 7000 is the superior card right out of the box because it's better supported.  My 9200 has always had weird quirks with the drivers and whatnot, and it's not much faster, if at all even though it's got 4x more memory.

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On 8/16/2018 at 10:01 PM, Unknown_K said:

Oddities

Early Beige G3s could not support slave drives, as these machines (generally) had Rev. 1 motherboards and Rev. A ROMs.

 

  • Rev. 1: $77D.40F2
  • Rev. 2: $77D.45F1
  • Rev. 3: $77D.45F2

Because of its issues, we consider the Beige G3 with a Rev. 1 motherboard a Limited Mac.

 

I just wanted to note that the limitation of no slave drives is an artifact of the Rev. A ROM and not the Rev. 1 motherboard.   If you put a Rev. B or Rev. C ROM in a Rev. 1 motherboard, you'll get slave support.    ROM is on a 168 pin DIMM module.

 

There were also a few G3s that could not address more than, oh, I can't remember any more.  The normal maximum memory in a Beige G3 is 768MB, 3 X 256MB.     Some of them had a flaw where they would not address more than some smaller number...   Either 384 or 512MB.    Pretty rare, as I have not seen any reports of people with these machine in many years, and I think Apple had a replacement program for the victims at the time.

 

I'm pretty certain the problem in those machines was also the ROM module -- in this case, not the ROM code on the chips, but the ROM module wiring.   There's one pin that's wired a certain way on older, pre-Beige models (that physical module was used for years), which, if wired that way on the Beige limits the memory for some reason.   

 

I surmise it was a "feature" Apple put on the logic board for some marketing reason, then decided not to use.

Edited by trag

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At least until the B&W G3, I was under the impression that Apple regarded SCSI for serious use and IDE for consumer/education use (that is, not serious...). IDE was cheaper and inferior to SCSI.

Now whether this was a deliberate policy or down to incompetence/poor planning/lack of resources, I don't know. The mid-1990s was not a happy time for Apple employees.

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I would offer an educated guess that all server variants had standard SCSI PCI cards AND 10/100 ethernet cards - every one I've seen did.  They also had factory 72 pin SCSI hard drives.

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Today I bought an ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Edition 32mb ram,  used complete with box and drivers. I will have it probably in the middle of December. The box says that it needs at least Mac OS 9. I would like to ask how is this card going to work on Mac OS 8.1. I have two partitions on my hard drive,  the one has Mac OS 8.1 installed and the other one Mac OS 9.2.2. Will Mac OS 8.1 recognize it? 

 

 

 

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I know I got the R7000 working under 8.5 or 8.6.   I had to hand install some extensions, IIRC.    The card works fine under 7.6.1 but one may not be able to load all the drivers to enable acceleration.

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Today the Ati Radeon 7000 Mac Edition 32mb ram delivered to my home. I connected it and It is great. I have also connected a dvd drive pulled from a Pentium III and also an ide 120gb hard drive bought some years ago from eBay. The G3 beige has also connected from the previous user  an Ethernet card and a usb card. The machine feels great and is really responsive. Next step is to install 768mb ram  (now it has 256mb) and maybe a sonnet g4 accelerator. Also i have a Roland MT32 device connected via the Macman Midi Interface and It plays great with some Sierra On Line games that support it.

 

 

 

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