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falen5

my first Lisa

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Thanks for the heads up celgen

 

when i first took out the cage i saw the 3 labels on bottom of the unit, then saw the 3 eproms. Took a picture of the dust marks to know where each lable went - dont think there was a flash. All 3 were covered with tape ( learnt that from the scsi card on the hacked aplle ii)

 

Changed some of the PSU caps. getting +10.5 volt, -10.2 , and +5 volt ( just empy cage installed - wondering if there is not enough load for the psu to work correctly) - took the readings from the power lead for the hard drive

 

the caps i did remove all have good readings

removed the 2 large 470uf , 250 volt caps - reading 457 uf and 490 uf. I have 2 replacement caps but their value were even worse so I put the old ones back for now

 

cant do anything else until new caps arrive

 

what would be an acceptable tolerance for the 470uf caps..... +/- 10?

Edited by falen5

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I've replaced most of the safety film caps on mine as well.. Those little square epoxy looking ones.. If they have slight cracks in them those are the ones that usually pop... 

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When I recapped my Lisa's PSU I did everything but the two primary caps. As mentioned above replace the AC line filter caps as well because they WILL fail and give you a good spook when they go. I use polyester substitutes which shouldn't need replacement again.

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They are all ordered - I have to wait for them. I have 4 apple ii's... had to replace all the foil caps  on their PSU. I have seen these thing go.... lots of smoke, noise and a hell of a mess to clean up. Both the .022  caps have small cracks on them.

 

anyone got any idea why  the lisa would have tripped out the house mains after a few minutes. I have never had that happen before and its worrying.

 

Im guessing there must be a direct short across the mains to do that within the PSU. Could the old caps be causing this or might there be some other component worth looking at while im waiting on parts

Edited by falen5

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Thanks for that badgoldeagle.

 

Im going through the drives today. Just finished having a good look at the harddrive and was on ebay looking for ideas when I saw your link.

I dont know anything about widget emulator.. except it costs allot. Will have to do some reading

 

Floppy drive looks very good. Cleaned up the bay holder , floppy and fan. Look nice and found no damage

 

unlike the hard drive. It really has me wondering what happened. Someone in the past went to the bother of taking this hard drive out, taking it apart, tore chunks off, chips, ribbon cables ... then put it back with all the broken bits. Found a chip in the bottom of the cage that belongs to one of the hard drive boards ( I think)

 

Im thinking , maybey, some poor devil has 100's of hours of work on the drive, maybey an entire buisness and the drive died..... all his data with it. After paying 10 grand for the machine (or what ever it was) just lost the head. I know I have!!

 

anyone got any ideas on the PSU tripping out the house mains, randomly, without touching the machine. Happened twice now. It has me very worried

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The mains tripping issue sounds like a failed capacitor on the primary side of the power supply. If the circuit breaker is a conventional type, it's probably tripping because of a short across the line. Most likely suspect is an across-the-line type filter capacitor. That should be an X2 type safety capacitor. If the circuit breaker is a GFCI/RCD type, then it may be a short/current leakage to the earthing conductor. I believe that would be a filter capacitor of Y2 safety type. Thanks to Techknight for some enlightenment on the subject of safety capacitors in power supplies recently.

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rsolberg...........Thank you so much.

That is exactly the info I was looking for

 

Techknight !! .........sure what can ya say....... mans a legend.........knows his stuff. He basically fixed half my machines with his advice.

 The TAM.......from a few pictures he told me how to rebuild the psu and it worked, then the next problem then the next

 

I have great passion for this hobby but no education in it. I would be totally lost if were not from the help from the people on this site and others

 

Big thankyou to both of you and everyone else on this forum.

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I am not a legend. haha. 

 

I am just very experienced from the 20+ years of electronics repair and rebuilding I have done. Starting when I was 9 years old, I fixed my first CD boombox which had a crack in the PCB and needed solder jumper wired back together. 

 

It still didnt operate perfect, but it worked and was my first CD player. 

 

Moved on from that to electronics engineering, and now an inventor. Just filed for a patent process (not cheap) hopefully getting that soon. I have come up with all kinds of crazy ideas to do crazy things, starting from things as simple as re-engineering something, to something as complex as an algorithm or even an entire system. Never really thought of it as inventions until recently. Inventions can be something as small and simple as just the way you handle data in a complex system that already exists, or going to exist in a newer/better form... 

 

Technically, the SCSI2SD and Floppy Emu are inventions  8-)

 

But I digress...

 

I never owned, looked inside, or even had my hands on a lisa before. So, your on your own with this one ;)

Edited by techknight

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"Ga way boy... would ya!!"........techknight you dont just know your stuff , you are good enough to share it.You and many others on here. Its very apreciated by me and im sure many others.

 

im pretty good in a few fields , but not this one. The annoying thing is..... I love this hobby , its an obsession , and it kills me not to have the knowledge to fully understand the ..... art form I guess........of how a good circuit works. To be able to apreciate its design etc etc. Its more of the quest in trying to restore the machine. You gave to get to know it, all the way down to the silicone .......it never got the training when i was young.

 

heres an example.

 

ordered the caps for the power supply. when it came to the old foil caps , I ordered modern day plastic ones. Logic being, in future when new owner looks at recapping he will see the modern caps, knowing it has already been recapped. Now im wondering should i have ordered the same type, which are avaiilable - the transluant brown ones . Is there a difference between the modern or the old ( well the ones that look old)

 

Darn obsession I tell ya!

Edited by falen5

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first look

 

sorry for the bad camera work on the board themselvs and the ever growing worse language..........passion boy!!

 

 

 

 

 

ps:-   EEVblog #696 ... you the man

Edited by falen5

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Recapped the power supply today. Getting good voltages

 

tried to power it up with IO board, CPU and ram

 

Got a display

 

but no life from the computer - no beep

 

3 of the roms had no cover sticker when i got it - im pretty sure I didnt get a flash when i took the pictures of the boards, but the chap that sold it to me took pictures of the boards as well, to show mw - dont know if he got a flash either

 

I have no idea which roms do what, or which ones need to operate to get a beep

 

heres a few pictures

 

 

 

 

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I don't think you'd break anything by removing the ROMs and powering it on, right?

If it's okay (maybe wait until others say it's safe), then why don't you give it a go? If you get the same result, you'd be sure the ROMs are toast.

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hi BGE

 

Im not sure which roms to go at 

 

Are the 2 chips under the 68000 the system roms?  

 

on the I/O card i can see lots of roms

 

the 3 that had the stickers fall off, would they be the main roms

 

computer is totally lifeless - no beep, no display... nothing

 

all my voltages are good and steady

 

reseated all socketed chips - they all look good - there is a socketed 74 chip on the motherboard - did that as well. That socket is kind of up on its side

will have a closer look - may have been replaced in the past

 

i doubt there are any problems within the machine - card cage connector, psu connector - after a good clean up last week everything looks new in there

 

just looking at the cardcage........ there's an interupt switch and a reset switch on the back - ill try hitting them

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tried again

 

reset and interupt made no difference

 

tried with the second ram card - nothing

 

just looking at other IO cards - the rom that is 4 pins short to fill the socket seems normal

 

Lisa is as dead as my hair style

 

Darn!

Edited by falen5

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getting an eprom burner 

 

great thing to have

 

i have the .bin files for the roms that 'probally' dont work - just have to write them

 

looking at this one

 

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/TL866CS-USB-Universal-Programmer-with-9-Adapters-High-Performance-for-12000-ICs-/272241214469?hash=item3f62d74405:g:aTUAAOSwBs1XMgdc

 

 

anyone got any advice on these - would be great to be able to write roms for lisa, apple ii, 68k mac's

 

 

more waiting

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I have one of those, It has been able to read and write everything I have thrown at it so far. (I have used it on Roms as old as my Mac plus's roms and as new as my 2014 MacBook Air with no problems)

 

I can't really think of anything else to say about it... It's cheap and it works, what more could anyone want? :)

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Big Thanks for that Max1zzz

 

nothing worse that getting the wrong thing

 

just bought it - looking forward to messing with this thing

Edited by falen5

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getting an eprom burner 

 

great thing to have

 

i have the .bin files for the roms that 'probally' dont work - just have to write them

 

looking at this one

 

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/TL866CS-USB-Universal-Programmer-with-9-Adapters-High-Performance-for-12000-ICs-/272241214469?hash=item3f62d74405:g:aTUAAOSwBs1XMgdc

 

 

anyone got any advice on these - would be great to be able to write roms for lisa, apple ii, 68k mac's

 

 

more waiting

 

I've always seen them as a modernized version of the Willem parallel port programmers from a decade ago. They work with relatively no issues. Personally I'm loyal to the Willem because it can also handle oddball chip types including NMOS. The newer programmers seem to favor more modern low power VPP or FLASH memory types.

Edited by CelGen

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Very cool find your LISA :lisa2:

I got my 2/5 beauty from a trade (could let my PDP 8/I go for the L and a lot of other nice machines - my transporter was kind of overloaded with old computers and parts on my way back home xD) some years ago and also repaired/rebuild it from the scratch. It was a victim of these acid leaking little trolls called batteries :-/

This year finally I got a nice working keyboard - an original mouse is the last thing to finish this beauty. It's already up and running like a charme.

 

Hope you can fix everything and get it up and running again [8D]  and for the good, please keep that smashed Widget - just as is. If you want throwing it in the bin, I'll pay the postage/transport to Germany [:D]]'>

 

Cheers,

Marcus

Edited by MarNo84

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Cheers Marcus.

 

I wont be throwing anything out. Still waiting on the eprom programmer to see if I can get some life into this machine

 

As for the hard drive, The damage to the widget boards is repairable id say. The problem is the actual drive itself

I had a look through some of the old drives I got from the guy from cork who used to work in Apple.

 

Found this one.  I think its an old mfm drive

Im hoping to find something i can use with the widget controllers....... although from what i have read so far it seems that nothing will work with the widget boards except the original drive

 

Anybody ever hear of someone finding a replacement for the for the widget drive mechanism itself that works with the widget controllers

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Edited by falen5

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Hi,

 

yep it's an old MFM but I doubt to get it together with the System itself ;) Apple had it's own things - even between their Apple Computers ;)

The PCBs on the Widget may be reapirable but how about the Plattern/Drive itself? you could take it to an IT Lab at any University near your place - they often has such clean rooms/boxes, so you could open the drive and check the plattern and especially that little glued glass sensor inside the drive.

 

But I assume that it's totally done - like you said above, someone took it out of the machine and throw it around...why in the world would someone do this? it's so  disgusting :-/

 

Marcus

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