Jump to content
Simon_Carr

Fitting a SCSI2SD in a 68k Mac

Recommended Posts

 

 

On 3/31/2018 at 2:32 AM, Skate323k137 said:

Got it working as zip100!

 

Oh that is nice! Great work :)

 

Really want to try this but the list of current projects is getting a bit out of control...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/31/2018 at 8:32 PM, joethezombie said:

Ha ha!  Wonderful-- at least with zip100 we have something working!  But yes, a larger partition would be better.

Zip250 drivers? They made a SCSI version, but I've yet to snag one for playtime.

 

edit: I wonder if it's possible to patch the Zip100 driver to support the 250 format or even 750?

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It looks like you can do 1gb with this method, so realistically a 4gb card with device ID zip 100 should work fine. 

 

All I changed in scsi2sd [since my last posts] was the device size. Left it as zip 100 device ID and all. It popped up on boot, formatted fine, and I'm copying data to it right now. The zip100 icon shows up and everything :)

20180411_202307.jpg

20180411_201912.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can confirm 1gb card is all good for reboots and eject / hotswap.

 

Now if only I could get it working in os9. The issue I have there with this same hardware but different iomega driver is that it never reports the card as inserted. 

 

But for system 7.5 at least it looks like we're good to go. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/19/2018 at 12:53 PM, jimjimx said:

My question is......

Can I partition, and have multiple boot volumes. 

I’ve tried & failed so far. 

I second that - I think its SCSI2SD utility that does that

Cheers

AP

Edited by AlpineRaven

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The easiest way I found to have 2 boot volumes was to just make 2 scsi IDs active in scsi2sd-util, each as hard disk. I did not bother making multiple partitions on each virtual drive, but that also works fine. Partitions are made in macos, not scsi2sd-util just to be clear. 

 

Having 2 scsi HDDs active on a single scsi2sd v5 works fine in my SE. I can upload the xml file which contains all the settings for scsi2sd-util if you'd like, but the settings themselves are in my previous posts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks fo the info. 

I didn’t use the utility. I plugged it into the scsi on a G3 using os 9, and used lido to format and partition it. 

I didn’t know you could set it up as 2 (or more?) scsi devices. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like someone needs to hack the Zip disk icon in the driver to an SD or MicroSD card. Cheat and put an oP Jolly Roger sticker on the side with the contacts. :o)

 

edit: just checked, definitely MicroSD, the outline's far more distinctive. @olePigeon, feel like going Susan Kare all over that Zip icon?

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini
the usual

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, jimjimx said:

Thanks fo the info. 

I didn’t use the utility. I plugged it into the scsi on a G3 using os 9, and used lido to format and partition it. 

I didn’t know you could set it up as 2 (or more?) scsi devices. 

The v5 scsi2sd does up to 4 devices. I have done that for a powermac (1hdd each, for os7, os8, os9, and virtual memory).

 

The v6 scsi2sd can effectively do every ID in a scsi chain, of course we would have to leave ID7 open for the logic board.

Edited by Skate323k137

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got my Mac Plus booting from the SCSI2SD today.

It was a chore, mostly because there were a few things I didn't know or had long forgotten about the early Macs & SCSI and the drive needs the early version of Apple HD SC Setup to allow the Plus to boot from the volume. (Because I believe the SCSI driver has to load from the disk. I used to know this, years ago.)

I used Version 7.0 from the System 7 install.

In the SCSI2SD settings I tried several of the drive models from the list posted on the previous page but I could only find a couple that the early setup software would recognize.

I ended up using SEAGATE ST250N and setting the volume size to 40mb in the SCSI2SD and the drive was recognized by the Apple HD SC Setup.

This gave me a 40mb volume. Ok fine, initialized, loaded System 6.0.8, and bam, I'm booting. Proof of concept achieved!

 

BUT I want a larger drive for the Plus.

So I went into the Version 7.0 of the Apple HD SC Setup to look at the names of the supported drives. (Resedit! I'm way having flashbacks!)

It looks like 80mb is the largest drive supported by this version.

Here is the list.

 SEAGATE           ST225N
RODIME R0632
QUANTUM Q280
QUANTUM Q250
SEAGATE ST250N
MINISCRIB M8425 - SCSI
SEAGATE ST157NB
QUANTUM P80S 980-80-94
QUANTUM P40S 940-40-94
CDC 94221-5
SONY SRD2040A
CONNER CP3045-mb-3.5
QUANTUM LP40S 940409404

 

Anyway, now that I've figured out how to get the SCSI2SD working with a Plus I'm going to experiment a bit and see how large a volume I can make bootable.

I'll have to look at the 7.1 version of drive setup and see what's in there.

Oh, also, there's a new version of firmware, 4.8, available for the SCSI2SD that apparently adds some more Apple-specific features.

Edited by MOS8_030

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, reallyrandy said:

Thanks Mos, I'm going to put my SCSI2SD on my Plus as well. I'll be booting 6.0.7 though. I wonder how big a partition I can get?

I'm thinking it depends on which version of Apple HD SC Setup you use but no matter what I believe there's a 1 gig limit to volume/partition size until you get to 7.5? or 7.6.

You can use the 7.0 version I did and you should be able to get at least 80mb.

I'm actually looking at the different versions of the HD SC setup now and I'm going to do some experiments tomorrow.

I'm hoping for at least at 540mb bootable volume on the Plus.

I will report my findings in entirely too much detail. I will also include the exact settings I used on the SCSI2SD.

Edited by MOS8_030

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok so after messing around this morning it looks like the largest Plus-bootable drive you can create on the SCSI2SD with any version of Apple HD SC Setup is 40mb. :(

At least without hacking/patching Apple HD SC Setup. This is because Apple HD SC Setup checks the SCSI2SD volume to see if it's an Apple HD, same as Drive Setup does.

(See Clopes66 earlier post.)

So ignore most of that list of drives I posted earlier, the only "generic" drives that are supported by Apple HD SC Setup are the same 40mb Seagate drives in Clopes66's post.

And you must use Apple HD SC Setup to initialize the drive or else the Plus will not boot from it.

Using Drive Setup seems to be the the most common mistake everyone, myself included, has been making.

The other clue I found here: http://www.codesrc.com/mediawiki/index.php/Mac_Plus

 

I have a 16gb SD card in the SCSi2SD set up as three drives. A 40mb for the Plus boot drive, a 1 gig for Plus storage, and a 9 gig for other Macs & stuff.

(The Plus will mount all the drives but only "see" 1 gig of the 9 gig drive.)

Depending on the size of your SD card and preferences you can configure your SCSI2SD drives differently. (Note, I am using the new 4.8 firmware with a SCSI2SD v.5.)

The 40mb drive I initialized with Apple HD SC Setup. I tried the later 7.3.2 (I think that's right) version from the 7.5 install and it worked fine, which makes sense since 7.5 supports the Plus.

Then I installed 6.0.8 from scratch. (I only have 1 meg in the Plus at the moment, I'd rather run 7.1, you should be able to use any OS that supports the Plus.)

I used Drive Setup to initialize the other two drives.

So this setup worked for me. My Plus has the "v3" ROMs, I don't know if having the earlier Plus ROMs will make a difference.

So here are the settings I used for the SCSI2SD. At one point I added spaces in front of the "ST1917" product ID. I don't think that's necessary I just haven't changed it since it worked.

Make sure to check "Auto" for any drives after the first one before you save the settings or you'll get an error.

Anyway, hopes this helps some of you. :)

 

Plus_SCSI2SD_settings_1.jpg

Plus_SCSI2SD_settings_2.jpg

Plus_SCSI2SD_extra_drivesettings_1.jpg

Plus_SCSI2SD_extra_drivesettings_2.jpg

Edited by MOS8_030

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good work

 

As a long shot... I assume you tried the patched HD SC setup that ignores the vendor list? Or will that not run on the plus?

Edited by Skate323k137

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is the largest SD Card I could use in SCSI2SD v5? 

I have 220gb of legacy software, my whole purpose of having SCSI2SD is to store all those software on it and be able to install on macs via external SCSI.

 

So, in theory - I was hoped to 4 partitions via SCSI2SD - 2gb (System 7.5.5 for earlier macs), 4gb (for Mac OS 8.6 for Power Macs) , 128gb and 128gb both for software.

Would that work?
Cheers

AP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Skate323k137 said:

Good work

 

As a long shot... I assume you tried the patched HD SC setup that ignores the vendor list? Or will that not run on the plus?

No I did not. I only used the "stock" version. I didn't know there was a patched version of HD SC also. Durr.

Yes, that probably would work to create a larger volume. For now I'll let some else try it, I'm done messing with the Plus until I get more ram.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, AlpineRaven said:

What is the largest SD Card I could use in SCSI2SD v5? 

I have 220gb of legacy software, my whole purpose of having SCSI2SD is to store all those software on it and be able to install on macs via external SCSI.

 

So, in theory - I was hoped to 4 partitions via SCSI2SD - 2gb (System 7.5.5 for earlier macs), 4gb (for Mac OS 8.6 for Power Macs) , 128gb and 128gb both for software.

Would that work?
Cheers

AP

Specs I can find say this: Standard SDSC (1GB maximum size) SDHC, SDXC (up to 200GB)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've tested 64gb and 128gb cards on the v6 and v5 respectively. I haven't gone bigger than a 128.

 

Since the v5 stores config internally, and not in the sd card, if you plan on using it as an external drive, you could set up your scheme for 3 or 4 hard drives using scsi2sd util. Then just use macos to format one or multiple SD cards. It wouldn't be hot swppable (power off to change cards) but you would effectively have an external hdd where you can change out the platters (cards) so to speak. Whenever you put in a new sd card it will act like several new empty HDDs to be partitioned and used. Whenever you put (back) in a card you've used, it will have all your volumes and data as it was previously. 

 

Last but not least you can use scsi2sd-util to toggle different virtual drives off or on, as long as you don't change the starting block number or device size. Be sure to read your config and backup to xml (scsi2sd-util does this) if you plan on doing that. 

Edited by Skate323k137

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a followup to my previous SCSI2SD/Mac Plus adventures, I can confirm that the patched version of Apple HD SC Setup works fine for creating larger Plus-bootable disks using the settings I detailed above.

Just fill in the vendor name with your favorite disk maker and anything for the product ID.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got a bootable SCSI2SD on a Mac Plus by MOS8_030s description. I could boot an OS 7.1 and an OS 6.0.8. I only was successful with the 20MB Seagate ST225N. My HD Setup program (V2.0, not patched) did not find other models. Perhaps there must be some spaces in the vendor and product ID?

But I have one problem left.

When I connect the SCSI2SD (ID3) with an HD20SC external HDD (with a 80MB Quanum, ID0) the booting works. But when I connect the SCSI2SD direct to the SCSI-port of the plus it does not boot. The same occurs, if I switch off the power of the HD20SC. There seems to be a problem with the power when the SCSI2SD is connected directly to the Mac Plus. The SCSI2SD is terminated.

Any ideas?

Martin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×