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techknight

Color Classic VGA Mod. the CORRECT way

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2 hours ago, techknight said:

the 550 analog board wont directly fit in the CC. its too wide and needs modded. 

Are you talking about the physical modification because it’s too wide or additional modifications to the actual circuitry? I get that it is too wide. 

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14 hours ago, Macdrone said:

i meant the motherboard.  The analog board must be cut short to fit in place.

What changes need to be done to the motherboard? Sorry if I'm getting confused. I know I have to cut down the AB from the 550 to fit in the smaller CC case.

 

On a side note does anyone have access to the schematics for the CC and Macintosh TV logic boards? I recapped the Mac TV board and everything was working correctly. Now it won't mount the internal SCSI drive. If I pop the CC Logic Board in it boots fine. 

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the motherboards need no change.  the 550 and cc motherboards are interchangeable as the 550 motherboard is also the color classic II motherboard.  Macintosh TV motherboards are weird, did you wash the whole board ?  When I had my macintosh TV the motherboard needed alot of cleaning.

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4 hours ago, Macdrone said:

the motherboards need no change.  the 550 and cc motherboards are interchangeable as the 550 motherboard is also the color classic II motherboard.  Macintosh TV motherboards are weird, did you wash the whole board ?  When I had my macintosh TV the motherboard needed alot of cleaning.

I used  I saprobic alcohol 99% to clean the board and when I put it into my color classic it had a distorted video but it and boot it now I get this started video still but no hard drive is found. I’ve heard people running it through the dishwasher 

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1 hour ago, Cubbie036 said:

I used  I saprobic alcohol 99% to clean the board and when I put it into my color classic it had a distorted video but it and boot it now I get this started video still but no hard drive is found. I’ve heard people running it through the dishwasher 

Definitely wash the board. One of my SE/30s just  showed horizontal stripes even after cleaning with alcohol, but once I washed it, it booted up perfect with no issues.

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6 hours ago, PB145B said:

Definitely wash the board. One of my SE/30s just  showed horizontal stripes even after cleaning with alcohol, but once I washed it, it booted up perfect with no issues.

Okay. Will do that! Will jetdry cause an issue? I know you do it without detergent 

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jet dry will cause no issue as its made to run off clean also.  I dont use but a drop of detergent and wash it alone when I do it on bottom rack.  Need as much heat and pressure and vertical to get that goo freed up and run off.

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Okay I wash the boards in the dishwasher. Still no boot sound on the CC logic board and the Macintosh TV Board still doesn’t see the hard drive. Anyone know where I can get schematics?

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On 8/26/2018 at 6:04 PM, Cubbie036 said:

Okay I wash the boards in the dishwasher. Still no boot sound on the CC logic board and the Macintosh TV Board still doesn’t see the hard drive. Anyone know where I can get schematics?

Bump on Schematics? 

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Is there a ‘master’ list of components and steps for performing this upgrade?

 

I’ve found several ‘guides’ (including this one) which all refer to each other, and have missing or contradictory component lists. I’m looking for something like:

 

1. Get these tools

2. Source these components

3. Clean the board with this solvent

4. Look for these defects (or trouble spots)

5. Follow these steps

 

I’m attempting to repair a color classic and I don’t have any spare boards if something goes wrong. I’d normally be glad to go through decades of comments on these threads, but I’m in a bit of a time crunch and this clearly has been successful many hundreds of times.

 

Does such a thing exist?

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D.....

 

Here is a colletion of all the links you need and even old ones missing from the itnernet:

 

https://powercc.org/

 

You can find the most detailed upgrade descriptions to your hardware at the above site as well.

 

mraroid

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Apparently there were slight variations of this analog board and it wont work for all. Just got a PM from a guy running a Rev C I think it is, and its got a weird pincussion issue. 

 

But I cant verify how it was done though. Just an FYI. 

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16 hours ago, DesignComplex said:

Is there a ‘master’ list of components and steps for performing this upgrade?

 

I’ve found several ‘guides’ (including this one) which all refer to each other, and have missing or contradictory component lists. I’m looking for something like:

 

1. Get these tools

2. Source these components

3. Clean the board with this solvent

4. Look for these defects (or trouble spots)

5. Follow these steps

 

I’m attempting to repair a color classic and I don’t have any spare boards if something goes wrong. I’d normally be glad to go through decades of comments on these threads, but I’m in a bit of a time crunch and this clearly has been successful many hundreds of times.

 

Does such a thing exist?

I have repaired 3 CC Logic Boards, 1 Macintosh TV LB, and 1 LC 520 & 1 Performa 550 LB.

 

I used clippers to clip the old caps off the boards. Clipping at the center of the Cap. I then used a flathead screwdriver to carefully remove the bottom portion of the caps. I left the metal poz & neg leads/posts left from the old cap still soldiered to the board. (removing them when I was ready to put on the new Caps)  Then ran them through the dishwasher as outlined earlier. I shook the boards to get as much excess water off (even though I had the dry cycle on) and put them in a dish drying rack with a fan blowing directly on them. I started with the Ports facing down to ensure any water trapped in the ports would drain out first. I rotated them every 6 hours. After they had a good 2 days of a fan blowing on them, I was sure that they were dry. Then I soildered on the new Cap's. It was easiest to put a bead of solider on the poz and neg terminals of the new caps first. Next I started to remove the old Cap leads/posts using resin were needed. (BE VERY CAREFUL - you can easily lift the metal pad off the logic board if you're not careful. Then you'd have to do a trace repair; which can be a bitch)  Finally I got the new Caps on and popped the new batteries in. All boards worked. The one that lost the startup chime still didn't make sound though the internal speaker. But external speakers work fine. (had to get Stereo to Mono adapter for best sound.)

 

I'd like to point out, that the Macintosh Performa or LC 520 & 550 logic boards work in the CC without any changes. Essential the LB from the 550's is the same as the Color Classic II @ 33MHz. The 520's are 25MHz, which is still a hell of a lot better than the underpowered 16MHz of the original CC. 

 

The thing that took to longest for me was sourcing the Caps as I wanted to use SMD/SMT Tantalum Chip Capacitors. They were only shipping from china off Amazon. I purchased them ahead of time so I'd have them right after the boards were done drying. 

 

Edited by Cubbie036

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On 8/26/2018 at 6:04 PM, Cubbie036 said:

Okay I wash the boards in the dishwasher. Still no boot sound on the CC logic board and the Macintosh TV Board still doesn’t see the hard drive. Anyone know where I can get schematics?

The Macintosh TV issue was that, though I fit in the CC, the Analog Video board was not powerful enough to provide power to everything. I popped it into a the Performa 550 and booted up perfectly. 

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Welp, I'm gonna take the plunge. I just ordered a handful of 216K resistors from "Surplus Sales of Nebraska," as they were pretty much the only place I could find 'em. They claim to be 5-watt, 1%. I'll definitely test 'em and post results when they arrive. Here's a link if anyone else is having trouble tracking some of these down (very top item, assuming you see the same list I did):

http://www.surplussales.com/Resistors/MetalFilm/MF216k-332k.html

I've got two CC2s and one Performa 275--that one's a bit rare and I'm gonna leave it alone for a bit. I'll probably start with the more beat-up of the CC2s I've got. I've got a few boards for Mystic '040 upgrades and will try to keep images and progress posted here.

Long-term project is an attempt at cramming a DOS-compatible board from a Performa 630 into a Mystic '040. I know it's missing the video port on the motherboard, but... I feel like there's a way this can be done without actually doing a full Takky mod. Everything else is there... it just feels so possible. Maybe someone has already done it? I couldn't find anything online. I've already got a Performa 630 DOS-compatible motherboard ready (purchased on eBay a couple of years ago when I first thought about giving this a try). Feels like a good project to take on.

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38 minutes ago, liroku said:

Long-term project is an attempt at cramming a DOS-compatible board from a Performa 630 into a Mystic '040. I know it's missing the video port on the motherboard, but... I feel like there's a way this can be done without actually doing a full Takky mod. Everything else is there... it just feels so possible. Maybe someone has already done it? I couldn't find anything online. I've already got a Performa 630 DOS-compatible motherboard ready (purchased on eBay a couple of years ago when I first thought about giving this a try). Feels like a good project to take on.

The IDE-based boards like the 630 will not swap into a CC variant (or indeed any other AIO models except a 58x). For that, you'll need to do the Takky mod. While you can basically run the Takky mod off of the stock CC analog board, it's not recommended: the 68040 draws more power than the 68030, which is stressful enough; adding a high-res mod and expansion cards (let alone a DOS card) could cause stability and longevity concerns. Usually major mods like that use an analog board from a 5xx because they're already set to run high-res and can put out a bit more power. They need to be physically cut down, though, because they're too wide to fit in a CC chassis as-is. It's major surgery but props if you can do it.

 

Does the 630 DOS card fit in a 575 logic board? That may be interesting if it does. Also it would swap directly into a CC without a Takky mod, though you'd still need to do something about the resolution (either high-res mod or ResEdit hack). I'd still be concerned about the power draw of the DOS card; the 486 wasn't known to be a low-power chip.

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Ah, but the 630 DOS card is a really bizarre creature, much different than most of Apple's other forays into the territory; it plugs directly into the '040 socket. The '040 and the 486 reside on the same daughterboard, with additional connectors plugging into the PDS (interestingly, the PDS connection does not include the extended pins) and the small, odd video port near the motherboard's main connection pins. This small port is the only one the 575 board is missing, and this is the reason why I think I might be able to make the DOS card work.

Power draw is definitely a concern.

I'm not really big on the Takky mods, 'cause I don't wanna do that much work and I cringe at the thought of cutting up a CC chassis. I avoided the screen res mod simply because I didn't want to cut a trace! I'm probably just a weirdo. That's the reason, though, that I'd wanted to try the 630 DOS surgery on an earlier '040 board, rather than just do the full Takky mod.

Here's a pic of the 630 board (not mine; I found this online, but I'll get some close-up pics up tomorrow if I've got time). You can see the '040 next to the pins where the actual CPU socket is located. The small video connector is on the right in the foreground, blue on the daughtercard, brown on the motherboard. Some Quadras (not the DOS compatibles) seemed to use this port as a video-out port (a ribbon cable runs from it directly to the video-out port at the back of the chassis).

630_DOS_Compat.jpg

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I don't like major mods to something unless I have multiples or one is in bad shape/dead anyway. I bought a CC II where it turns out someone had done an improper high-res mod involving the trace cut/transformer jumper technique. I finished the mod but apparently I need to try another capacitor value or two because my screen is still too wide. Of course, being a CC II, it has a later analog board so the upgrade components and locations listed here don't align properly.

 

The 63x's is the only DOS card that connects in that manner, and as such is the only one I really wanted to find (I got a Performa 640 DOS). Interestingly, the 68040-based compact Mac PowerPC upgrade card connects in the same way, though I sincerely doubt you could run them concurrently.

 

The connector on the logic board is supposed to be for external video out, but it may be software-switchable to do the DOS card video input instead (I'm not 100% sure how these things work; it's not terribly detailed in the Dev Note). If so, you can probably modify an external video kit so that it permanently displays your DOS environment on a separate monitor in the same way that the other DOS cards do.

 

Of course this all assumes that the 575 and 6xx logic boards have the same layout; the DOS card is a very tight fit and a small variation in component placement could cause problems.

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