What to buy LC475 or Performa 630

[Melkhior]

Don't know if there are any project on home build Ethernet card for the PDS slot ?

Not that I know of, but the PDS slot in the LC475 is using the interface from the MC68030, it's identical to that in the LCIII and backward compatible to the shorter, less capable slot in the LC and LCII.

There is a modern Ethernet card for the SE/30, the SEthernet/30. I have reworked my own version for the IIsi (see here).

I expect it wouldn't be very hard to do a LCIII/LC475 version. The slot is physically wired completely differently, but logically all the MC68030 signals are there so it's just a matter of doing the PCB.

 

[VMSZealot]

I have an LCIII+ that I bought from new and played Doom and Duke Nukem 3D on. At postage stamp sized resolution. I love that machine - but it seldom sees use these days - although it's been recapped and upgraded as far as it will go. Because…

Now I also have an LC475. And, as my son would say, the LC475 slaps. Essential upgrades? More memory and more VRAM. Both are cheap enough on eBay - even for new parts. A modern SCSI - SD solution (in the interests of avoiding an argument I won't specify which one!). An ethernet card. Then, if you can find one cheaply, install a full 68040 CPU (there are good games out there - including, now, Quake - which absolutely require an FPU - and SoftFPU won't cut it!). Then whack a heatsink on it - and overclock the hell out of it. I got a 33MHz rated 68040 and it's stable at 40MHz for hour after hour after hour. I use it as a development machine. It's just about the quickest 68k Mac there is now (close enough to the absolute pinnacle of speed that it makes no difference) and very very usable.

The difference between a standard 475 (even at 25MHz) and an LCIII+ (at 33MHz) is the difference between the LCIII and the LC. The poor old LCIII doesn't stand a chance.

 

[Phipli]

Weird. Not sure why mine doesn't in the Control Strip. My other one offers 1024x768 with 1MB RAM and the same adapter (not offering 1152x870 is the adaptor, because it doesn't tend to offer it for "VGA", only multisync 21")

Not really of interest to this thread, but quick test on my 512k VRAM LC 475 running B1 7.6.1...

Switches	Resolutions
VGA	640x480, 800x600
Multimode 21"	640x480, 832x623, 1024x768 (4bit), 1152x870 (4bit)

So the answer is, you need to set it to the Apple Multisync 21" mode to get all resolutions. The adapter I was using was a switchless "VGA" adapter from the G3 era that works great on a Beige G3.

@Trianon - the machine will do 1024x768 and even 1152x870 with only 512k, as long as you don't mind 16 colours. Good enough for development. Drop down to 832x624 or 640x480 if you need 256 colours. It actually looks quite good in 16 greys.

 

[MacJunky]

- LC475 has the better graphics, but I need to get 1MB VRAM first, making a PCB myself should be no issue.

Has anyone designed a pcb for this?

No need to design anything, they are already produced! These ones in particular are from Jurassic Computing in France.
I sort of regret not getting one for my LC II while I was at it, but it is what it is.

 

[Phipli]

No need to design anything, they are already produced! These ones in particular are from Jurassic Computing in France.
I sort of regret not getting one for my LC II while I was at it, but it is what it is.
View attachment 95766View attachment 95767

Sometimes... The fun isn't in just buying someone else's work.

 

[LazarusNine]

I'd recommend the 475. I used to have a few, a couple of which I donated to a righteous cause (@max1zzz). They all had various issues that I don't think were inherent to the model itself. I'm left with my Performa 630 as one of the latest model 68k machines. As others have said, the plastics are brittle. I've managed to avoid breaking anything significant, but every time I remove the faceplate, I get anxiety about breaking the clips.

While on the one hand the IDE drive makes for a more cost-effective upgrade in using an IDE-CF adapter, the 630 is very finicky and in my experience, will not accept a CF card much larger than 4GB (I've not tried with 8GB). You can still buy 4GB cards, but they're not much less expensive than those with higher capacities. Now, if money is not an object, you could just bypass the internal drive altogether and get yourself an external BlueSCSI. I've also booted the 630 off of one of those and it's a pretty good solution, though I like having internal drives.

Notably, if I'm not mistaken, the 630 uses the same LC PDS slot that the 475 has, so both machines are capable of using similar expansion cards. I have mine populated with an ethernet card that I likely pulled form one of the 475s. To conclude, the 475 has far less plastic inside the case, the plastic is more robust, the machine is lighter weight, and there's quite a robust tinkering community that's built around that form factor and that machine specifically. I'd opt for the 475. Just be prepared to sort out the PSU at some stage.

 

[Phipli]

will not accept a CF card much larger than 4GB (I've not tried with 8GB)

This is a CF problem rather than a 630 issue sadly. The same is true of almost anything that uses 90s IDE.

My understanding is that newer CF cards (read larger than ~2GB) dropped support for some of the IDE compatibility modes or something like that.

This is why you will find 2GB and smaller cards are strangely expensive on eBay.

Actual disks, I've had a 40GB hard disk in a 630 before, I think my dad mentioned using an 80GB disk in his!

I keep a stockpile of 2GB older cards. There are the occasional bigger cards that work, but I don't know how to specifically spot them.

 

[killvore]

The clips on my 630s face plate came off so I just put two magnets in there to snap it in place - works really well! (please ignore the missing plastics, I'm going to recap the PSU when it stops being -14 outside )
View attachment IMG_5117.mov

 

[Snial]

The clips on my 630s face plate came off so I just put two magnets in there to snap it in place - works really well! (please ignore the missing plastics, I'm going to recap the PSU when it stops being -14 outside )

That's -14ºC, for those unused to international temperature standards! It's 7ºF (for people into ForeignHeight units ;-) ).

Hey @killvore : impressed by the old-school DYMO label print! Those things are such fun!

 

[Realitystorm]

This is a CF problem rather than a 630 issue sadly. The same is true of almost anything that uses 90s IDE.

My understanding is that newer CF cards (read larger than ~2GB) dropped support for some of the IDE compatibility modes or something like that.

This is why you will find 2GB and smaller cards are strangely expensive on eBay.

Actual disks, I've had a 40GB hard disk in a 630 before, I think my dad mentioned using an 80GB disk in his!

I keep a stockpile of 2GB older cards. There are the occasional bigger cards that work, but I don't know how to specifically spot them.

You can use industrial CF cards to get back the correct IDE support, or use ZuluIDE.

 

[Snial]

You can use industrial CF cards to get back the correct IDE support, or use ZuluIDE.

Or DOM modules.

HyperDisk Flash Disk Module industrial 4GB 44PIN Disk On Module | eBay UK

Would be greatly appreciated, if you do so.we will try our best to solve the problem.

www.ebay.co.uk

But note, although the pinout is IDE, it's a socket and a mirror image. A simple PCB with a header can fix this.

 

[Chopsticks]

I’ve always just used transcend branded industrial CF cards either 8 or 16gb. Never had issues with either. Worth noting to that industrial CF card’s will appear as a fixed non removable drive to macOS

 

[zefrenchtoon]

Here is my (sort of) answer to the original question.

[Souvenir "ON"]
Back in time, when I was young, my father had a 630 and many years later I got a 475 for cheap for myself. I've tuned its system, connected an "external" cd-rom directly on the internal SCSI connector using a longer flat ribbon and the Mac was snapier than my father's 630. I thought it was because of the IDE internal HDD vs the SCSI one in my 475 + my custom system.
I don't know if it was real or not (did not run any benchmark at the time to compare).
[Souvenir "OFF"]

Also, you have to be aware that these Mac do not have a "LC PDS slot" but an "Expansion Slot compatible with most LC PDS cards" (I can't get back the page explaining the real differences between them).
Also, between the 475 and the 630, there is another difference in memory management in the fact that the 630 does not accept to run in 24 bit mode so you can not use an Apple IIe card in a 630.

The 630 seem to have a "good" video chipset for the time, the "Valkyrie" chip that the 475 does not have.
Here is a (french) blog post showing this: https://www.journaldulapin.com/2025/05/28/marathon-valkyrie/

Finally, as others already said, the 630 is heavy. It can get some custom expansion cards using Comm Slot, (sort of) PDS, DOS card, AV … but today, I still prefer the 475.

 

[Trianon]

Hi all,

Got the LC 475 yesterday, 36MB ram should be enough, but only has 512kB VRAM, maybe will order the upgrade once back in stock.
This will be my main development machine, a BlueSCSI will help to keep the noise down while having CD-rom support (iso file).

I did run some benchmarks and it seems this LC 475 (68LC040@25MHz) is only slightly slower than the 5300 as I'm running only 68k code,
after installing a full 68040@33MHz it will be a workhorse (don't know if I really need the FPU yet).

I also run the same benchmarks on the LC and LC II and the difference in CPU speed is minimal between both, more surprising is that the
HDD in the LC II is 11% SLOWER !! Both are the original 40MB from Apple, maybe I should put the HDD from the LC 475 in the LC II ?

PS : Also got 2 broken CLASSICS + 1 SE 1/40 to repair

 

[Phipli]

Congratulations!

36MB ram should be enough

Yeah, that's plenty I have 20MB in mine ever though I could go and find a bigger module - it's enough for most stuff.

is only slightly slower than the 5300 as I'm running only 68k code,

The lack of L2 hobbles the PB 5300.

after installing a full 68040@33MHz it will be a workhorse

The 25MHz part will happily run at 33MHz if you want to just try it for now. Nothing to worry about. Just install the Control Strip Module, restart, select 33MHz from the control strip and run the benchmark again

don't know if I really need the FPU yet

Yeah, I wouldn't worry about an FPU too much given the cost

Also got 2 broken CLASSICS + 1 SE 1/40 to repair

Nice - Classics are often a mess - the caps go particularly bad in them. The SE is a tank and should be a fairly easy fix. They're basically the same machine - the Classics are just cost reduced SEs minus the expansion slot.

 

[croissantking]

more surprising is that the HDD in the LC II is 11% SLOWER !! Both are the original 40MB from Apple, maybe I should put the HDD from the LC 475 in the LC II ?

The 475 wouldn’t have come with anything as small as a 40 - I think they were specified with 80, 160 or 250mb drives.
It’s normal to have a speed differential between different brands/models of drives - the faster 40meg unit might be a newer design with a single platter vs multiple platters therefore higher data density.

 

[Trianon]

Nice - Classics are often a mess - the caps go particularly bad in them. The SE is a tank and should be a fairly easy fix. They're basically the same machine - the Classics are just cost reduced SEs minus the expansion slot.

I opened up all 3 devices today (unfortunately the seller of the classics tried to power them up already ) and found some good and bad :

One classic looked good no damage found, needs clean and recapping.

Second classic has ugly battery damage, part of the metal is damaged and part of the PCB. Will be a parts device for the case, tube and
the extra RAM.

The SE has battery damage, but it seems the silicon used to hold a cap in place saved the PCB.