Video output blues

[Powertrip]

Hi, everyone.

Now that I have the entirety of my beige collection home with me, I am going through and trying to get functional machines up and running.  Currently I am working on my two beige G3MTs. 

One is a 300MHz machine with max RAM, an Ultimate Rez, and an ATI video card that I cannot ID yet as I did not want to pull cards.

The Rez has the Apple Display Connector (I think that was what it was called before they standardized on DVI with the rest of the world) and VGA.  The ATI card has VGA only.  I tried first the ATI card connected through a VGA-VGA cable to my girlfriend's HP LCD monitor.  For a split second, I got output that was obviously off, like a bad resolution was picked or the DIPs were set wrong on an old school VGA-DVI adapter.  And then the signal stopped and the monitor just started hunting for a signal.  I shut her down and tried the Ultimate Rez and this time I did not even get the output blip.  Tried the other G3MT and same as Ultimate Rez.

At this point I am thinking I need to try a new cable or possibly get a VGA-DVI adapter and try the DVI port on the monitor which I know is good.

Am I missing any obvious troubleshooting steps? I have been hoarding and collecting these boxes for a long time and it is sad that I am just now getting back to my legacy Macs but better late than never.  I am trying to do this as frugally as possible, as I am really hoping that I can get a top end PCI graphics card and ZIF upgrade.  I figure these will suck up the majority of my hobby budget.

Thanks guys! I am REALLY excited to get one of these up ASAP.

 

[rsolberg]

I would try pulling one of the cards in the machine that has two installed. I'd try booting with the ATI alone first as it is probably the stock card from that machine and since it's VGA only, you don't have to worry about which output is active. I think the Ultimate Rez predates ADC- it appears to have a DB-15 Apple monitor connector and a VGA.

 

[Powertrip]

I had the same problem in the MT with only one graphics card.  But tomorrow I will follow your advice and see.  I believe the card in the other mac is a Rage 128 with DVD playback module.

 

[rsolberg]

Oops I meant to ask if you're getting a startup chime.

 

[Powertrip]

Startup chimes on both towers.  One of them gives me the beep you get when say PRAM battery is fail(ing/ed) and time is off, or it was shutdown improperly.

 

[Powertrip]

Update: Found another VGA cable while rummaging.  Same thing.

I have ordered a Radeon 9200 for cheap in hopes that maybe it is the VGA port on the monitor.

 

[Byrd]

Is the ATI card definately Mac compatible?  Also, that Radeon 9200 I assume is the Mac Edition, as flashing a generic 9200 probably won't happen.

Also reset the CUDA on your motherboard, and PRAM.

 

[Powertrip]

All of these cards were in macs that were functional as is.

Yes, the 9200 is a Mac edition. I will reset CUDA and zap PRAM.

 

[Schmoburger]

Yep, CUDA reset and PRAM zap before anything... the towers of the late 8/9xxx and G3 era can be rather, shall we say... temperamental (to put it in a nice way).

 

[Powertrip]

CUDA reset and pulled battery. No change after returning the battery.  Will try and buy one soon and see if that affects anything.  Do I need to zap PRAM after pulling the battery? Should that not accomplish the same thing?

I am sadly failing with all the things that I have forgotten over the years since my beige G3DT 266 was my daily driver.  And it has been a very long time since I have tinkered with anything older than a Quicksilver 733.

Thanks everyone for their helpful and patient advice.

 

[Schmoburger]

It is definitely good practice to  zap the PRAM after doing just about anything under the lid, even just changing the battery. And sometimes once wont fix it but twice will. Go figure lol. And a cuda reset is what i consider the first step to troubleshooting any failure to  power on properly... make sure to do this with the power unplugged. that said it sounds like you may have some more sinister problems at play here.

I did notice you said one of the cards has ADC only correct? If so, this card may require additional power from somewhere, as ADC monitors are powered off the card itself, which in turn must get I beleive it is 28V (dont quote me on this figure however) from somewhere or another. Apple fed in this seperate voltage line through a pin on the AGP port in the G4 and G5 which came standard with the ADC port, when all Apple displays used this inteface. However given that PCI does not have this power feed as far as I am aware, it must come from elsewhere... unless the card has some kind of step-up circuit onboard. This would presumably require some rather bulky analogue componentry on the card however so I dont know if this would have been how it was done, or whether the card would have required some external power supply for the display port. In any case, given the wierdness of ADC, i would do some research into the workings of that specific card before writing it off. As for the Rage that is harder to diagnose.

 

Out of curiosity, what is the model number of the HP monitor and what size is it?

 

[Powertrip]

Display Model number is HP2011x. 20"

This problem is occuring across multiple machines.  I have tried two VGA-VGA cables, and the graphics cards I am using are all VGA and or the old style Apple display output used by the G3 motherboard (the designation escapes me at the moment).

It being a cable or monitor issue is what I arrived at because multiple machines with the cards they originally had when I acquired them (known good configuratations) are having the same issue.  The first machine I tried when connected to the Ultimate Rez showed a low resolution mac screen and then signal stopped.  After this is when I could not get anything on the VGA port of the display.

I will make sure I do the CUDA reset with power unplugged (Pretty sure I did this the first time but I will make sure I do for sure this attempt) and then I will do the Cmd-Opt-P-R as soon as I hear Apple Bong. 

If it was just one machine, I would be inclined to think it was something in the box, but multiple machines, one I know was working before I got it to the house. 

 

[Byrd]

Can you test the LCD on another machine - such as a generic PC with VGA output.  I'd also look into another DB15 to VGA adapter, such as the ones with DIP switches.  Resetting the PRAM (hold down keys until you hear the Apple Bong x 3) will reset the resolution/refresh to defaults.

 

[Powertrip]

I will test the VGA port tomorrow with a MacBook Pro and a Mini DisplayPort to VGA dongle. I do not have a DB15 to VGA adapter. I have just been trying video cards with VGA ports on them.

 

[Powertrip]

UPDATE:

Grabbed battery from a gigabit G4, reset CUDA, zapped PRAM, and installed the 9200 Mac edition.

I did the shotgun approach so it will require further testing to figure out what did it, but the G3MT Server addition is alive and smiling at me. Now to get the other MT (non server) up and running and possible the lower specced desktop for giggles and then onto getting one of the Mach V systems going.

Thank you everyone for the assistance because I would have given up without it. Now I just need that Unobtanium ZIF!

 

[Schmoburger]

Great to hear mate! A little perserverance goes a long way... I literally pulled down my 9600 to a bare shell and replaced a whole logic board before I realised the old one was fine. It gave me so many headaches but I found a configuration that worked after a lot of ibuprofen and it made it all worth the time, as it's a fantastic machine.

 

[Powertrip]

I am about to go through the same thing! The only one of four 9600 carcasses I got will not power on so now I get to troubleshoot that once I have pieced together my best of both chassis G3.