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PCI Power Mac processor card cross-compatibility?
- Thread starter EvieSigma
- Start date
Someone can hop in here and give you the *exact* limitations, but roughly speaking so far as I'm aware if you're *only* talking about Apple-labeled cards you can swap the newer/faster cards with impunity into the older machines with the exception of the *very last* "Mach V" 604ev-based cards used in the later 8600/9600 machines. (IE, any machine 250mhz or faster.) Those *only* work with the motherboards shipped in those boxes.
Things get more complicated if you're talking about clone cards from manufacturers like Power Computing/Umax/etc. And then of course there are the third party G3/G4 upgrade cards, but those were usually designed to be universally compatible, or close to it.
Things get more complicated if you're talking about clone cards from manufacturers like Power Computing/Umax/etc. And then of course there are the third party G3/G4 upgrade cards, but those were usually designed to be universally compatible, or close to it.
See this old posting. The first three paragraphs are background on nomenclature, then it really digs into you're question, so be patient.
https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/17416-85xx86xx95xx96xx-cpu-cards/&do=findComment&comment=173829
https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/17416-85xx86xx95xx96xx-cpu-cards/&do=findComment&comment=173829
Okay, so my 9600/300 processor card won't work in any 7000 series Power Macs. That's a bit of a bummer, but it's good to know.
I want a 7500 or 7600 for the built in A/V jacks but they're on the slow side. Maybe instead of buying a G3 card for my 9600 I could buy one for a slow machine instead.
I want a 7500 or 7600 for the built in A/V jacks but they're on the slow side. Maybe instead of buying a G3 card for my 9600 I could buy one for a slow machine instead.
The 9600 (both revisions) uses exactly the same chipset as the 7500 & 7600. The only differences are that the 7500 & 7600 have the 341s0168 - 0171 ROM and has a CHAOS/Control video capture chipset and the 9600 has 341s0280 - 0283 or 341s0380 - 0383 ROMs (depending on original vs. Enhanced/Kansas) and the 9600 has a second Bandit chip on the CPU bus instead of the video circuitry.
Noone has really found any substantial difference caused by the ROMs except that the 0380 - 0383 revision let's you use Speculative Processing with G3s.
The video chips may require a slower CPU bus speed, whereas machines with two Bandits have been reported running as fast as 62 MHz. If you're staying down in the 45 - 50 MHz range then in practice a 9600 is no faster than a 7500/7600. Really, the only difference between the 7500 and 7600, BTW, is the power supply connector on the logic board.
But the memory data controllers, the CPU bus/address controller/arbiter, the IO chips and the PCI bus chips are all identical betwwen the models, even on the Enhanced versions.
Noone has really found any substantial difference caused by the ROMs except that the 0380 - 0383 revision let's you use Speculative Processing with G3s.
The video chips may require a slower CPU bus speed, whereas machines with two Bandits have been reported running as fast as 62 MHz. If you're staying down in the 45 - 50 MHz range then in practice a 9600 is no faster than a 7500/7600. Really, the only difference between the 7500 and 7600, BTW, is the power supply connector on the logic board.
But the memory data controllers, the CPU bus/address controller/arbiter, the IO chips and the PCI bus chips are all identical betwwen the models, even on the Enhanced versions.
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It should work but you'd be better off getting a G3 card instead
http://www.ebay.com/itm/282351268028
These work in all pre-G3 PCI Powermacs.
I might be liquidating my inventory of PCI PowerMac stuff soon (8600 tower, G4 upgrade card, tons of 5v DIMMs). I'll post something in the marketplace when I do.
These work in all pre-G3 PCI Powermacs.
I might be liquidating my inventory of PCI PowerMac stuff soon (8600 tower, G4 upgrade card, tons of 5v DIMMs). I'll post something in the marketplace when I do.
One thing to consider, something I'm planning on trying out myself, is that the 8600 and 7500, 7600, and 7300 are physically compatible in terms of their motherboards, so if you were to get an 8600 board for your /300 Mach5 604ev you could just put that into a compatible desktop case.
Even though I think this is total shenanigans and Apple should have sold Mach5 7600 and 7300 systems, the way Apple was marketing it at the time was:
7200: PC compatibility, more affordable generic desktop productivity
7500 & 7600: multimedia & conferencing plus generic desktop productivity (video in but not out)
7300 (which replaces both 7200 and 7600) affordable and performance generic desktop formfactor productivity.
8500 & 8600: desktop multimedia production productivity (had video output as well)
9500 & 9600: ultimate performance, ultimate flexibility, spec it out for whatever you need.
From an actual practicality standpoint, I don't know why there was a 7000 series that worked with the Mach5/604ev processors out of the box. The system should've been enough to cool it and
Out of curiosity, what stuff are you doing? It may be possible to do video capture with a 7000 then move the video to the 9600, if you've already got all the parts and networking or big removable storage set up, although from the standpoint of having one fast machine for capture and editing, either using an 8500/8600 (in particular an 8600/300) or g3/g4 upgrade on a 7000 is going to be your best bet to build one machine for capture that's also faster.
This is... not the point, but another thing you might consider if you do get a 7500 or 7600 is just leaving it as is. Depending on what you're trying to run, it may not be that bad.
Even though I think this is total shenanigans and Apple should have sold Mach5 7600 and 7300 systems, the way Apple was marketing it at the time was:
7200: PC compatibility, more affordable generic desktop productivity
7500 & 7600: multimedia & conferencing plus generic desktop productivity (video in but not out)
7300 (which replaces both 7200 and 7600) affordable and performance generic desktop formfactor productivity.
8500 & 8600: desktop multimedia production productivity (had video output as well)
9500 & 9600: ultimate performance, ultimate flexibility, spec it out for whatever you need.
From an actual practicality standpoint, I don't know why there was a 7000 series that worked with the Mach5/604ev processors out of the box. The system should've been enough to cool it and
Out of curiosity, what stuff are you doing? It may be possible to do video capture with a 7000 then move the video to the 9600, if you've already got all the parts and networking or big removable storage set up, although from the standpoint of having one fast machine for capture and editing, either using an 8500/8600 (in particular an 8600/300) or g3/g4 upgrade on a 7000 is going to be your best bet to build one machine for capture that's also faster.
This is... not the point, but another thing you might consider if you do get a 7500 or 7600 is just leaving it as is. Depending on what you're trying to run, it may not be that bad.
The high-end Sonnet G4 upgrade cards do NOT work with 0380 - 0383 ROM based 9600's.
While Sonnet was still selling the last of their stock on their cards, I bought and returned something like 3 of the 1GHz G4 cards until we traced the issue to the unsupported OF version, which installing the ROM patch on WILL NOT work.
If anyone is familiar with these cards, with extensions enabled, they will crash 90% of the time during the extensions loading unless the OF patch is installed, and to install it, you need to run the full 3.1 software inhaler.
Disappointing no support on the newer PCB's definitely, but possibly patchable.
In the end, I transitioned to Power Tower Pro's as they use the 9500 ROM which is completely compatible, but with an eATX motherboard.
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