Minimum Compact Mac Value?

[bibilit]

I also believe that there is much to be said for work put in. If you take an otherwise unrestored SE that works for $40, put the time and money into recapping the AB/PSU, clean and properly lube the floppy drive, etc, there last no reason you shouldn’t be able to get $100-$120 for it seeing as the parts and labor were put into it. At least that’s how I see it.

 

Well, IIRC, The SE was probably the one with the higher figure in production terms (The Plus remained in production for five years, only replaced by the Classic who was a new iteration) so SEs can be found pretty cheap mainly because they are plenty of them around, are bulletproof (mine survived to a Maxell Bomb) and don't need any recapping so far.

 

[LaPorta]

The only thing I’d disagree with is the last part: every compact Mac ever made by this point needs their analog boards and PSUs recapped. If you buy one that still works, that’s great, but it is definitely on borrowed time. I agree the logic boards are pretty beefy.

 

[dcr]

On the flip side, the capacitors on the analog boards and PSUs in the compact Macs have held out far, far longer than the capacitors on the logic boards of SE/30s and other later 68k models.

 

[Cory5412]

are you saying you prefer the SE because it’s the most undervalued/unappreciated and therefore deals can be had, or because you like it the best for other reasons?

To add, for myself:

The performance the SE/30 (and to some extent, the Classic II) adds over the SE and SEfdhd, and the types of upgrades people put in it, make relatively little sense to me, personally, because using that performance for anything meaningful is difficult on the built in 512x342 display.

The, uh, magic, for lack of a better way to put it of having something in the original/compact/classic form factor is sort of lost if you have to use an external display along with it for it to make sense as a computer. (And: I'm going to argue that this is meaningfully different from, say, "needing" to use second and third displays with modern flat-panel iMacs.)

The SE/30 should be a fine system 7 performer without doing too many upgrades (040, color, whatever unholy combinations are possible or people want to be possible) but the value of, say, system 7 (or even 6+multifinder) and multitasking is.... questionable. Not "not there", but questionable, again, because of the display.

(Come to think of it: I actually have an SE/30, which needs some bits repaired, I should see about getting that done.)

I have a Plus with 4 megs of RAM, and it's a nice configuration, but the SEfdhd, Classic, or Classic II strikes me as a little more compatible with everything else I have and run.

Anyway, TL;DR - the SE/30 costs a lot because it's super upgradeable, but the upgrades don't make sense to me. In general, a stock real Quadra or 040 LC will outperform an SE/30 and you can use a bigger color monitor on a real Quadra, plus most Quadras have Ethernet onboard.

Basically all of the hardware shortcomings of the Macintosh in its first 2 years weren't Apple's fault, or at least not entirely. Sony promised them double-sided drives, but they weren't able to deliver them in volume. DRAM was expensive. SCSI was an emerging standard in 83-84.

Sure, I didn't say it was a reasonable alternate universe, or even that I'd have shipped the Mac in 1984 in that case.

 

[Dog Cow]

Apple might have been better off sticking with the original price (or closer to it) with the 128k Mac, or waiting a couple months and debuting it at 512k. Seems like they kind of did the worst possible thing instead.

Out of those two options, surely the former is better from a price point, but not from a technical point. We all know the Mac 128K listed at $2495 in January 1984 because Scully wanted to tack on an extra $500 to pay for the Superbowl ad. But it's worth pointing out that when the 512K Fat Mac was announced in September 1984, its retail was $3,195, and the 128K model was then reduced to $2,195. The 128K -> 512K upgrade was $995.

 

[Scott Baret]

The SE/30 has been in demand since the day it was discontinued. 

Look at materials from very late 1991 into 1992. The SE/30 was a beloved machine when new and was even described in one book as a "perennial favorite". This was in 1994. (Source: "Upgrading and Repairing Macs", published by QUE). Prices remained relatively high until the middle of the PPC era, around 1996-1997, when they started to bottom out--although people would still buy an SE/30 if it showed up at a surplus sale, later on eBay, etc. Rarely did they go for a buck or two like the other Macs. They could be had for double digits in dollars until the past few years, when the "new normal" became $100+. 

Regarding Mac prices: in any hobby, prices can and will fluctuate; generally, they will trend upward. For some hobbies, this follows a period of great availability and low prices. Somewhere, there's a 2004 Oldsmobile Alero on a Craigslist ad for about $1000. It's an old compact car, likely destined for its third or fourth owner, and odds are it will wind up with a high school student for the fall. However, in about 30 years, once reality has set in that Oldsmobile has been gone for a long time and the 2004 Alero was their final model, that car will be worth much more than $1000, even if it needs some work done to it. Try buying a 1966 Toronado. It won't be cheap. True, the Toronado was a superior model to the Alero in its time, but eventually, even the low end vehicles go up in price.

Macs are the same way. The 1966 Toronado was the SE/30 of the Olds lineup. Smaller, but full of technology. It's always been in demand, save for maybe when these cars were 10 years old or so. Classics are like the Starfires, Cutlass Calaises, Aleros, Achievas, etc...they're out of production but increasingly in demand, especially since many of the mass-produced models are gone. They have gone up in value, especially for working or restored models. Tack on modern conveniences and the prices can go through the roof.

Events can also trigger a change in price. When Steve Jobs died, old Macs got even more expensive. Everyone wanted to remember his legacy, even though most of our compacts were released after his departure from the company (and before he came back). 

When I sell computers, I sell them at values I believe are fair for the condition and the state of the market. The prices I have listed in my sale thread at the moment are not the same prices I would have listed two years ago. Two years from now, the prices may be even different.

 

[jimjimx]

In 1996, I bought a 3’ x 3’ x 6’ cage of computers from a Salvation Army for $100 flat.

From that haul, I got about 11 9pin monitors, various Microsoft type computers, and 2 Q-950s, a WGS 95, and a Q-800.

Trashed all the Microsoft stuff,  sold one of the 950s for $100, which made the whole lot free.

2 years ago, I sold the WGS card for $150.

Other things I got for free / saved from being put in the trash; SE, SE/30, Classic II, G3 DT, G3 AIO, PB 520, G4 iBook.

If ya keep looking and be patient, they can be found free or cheap.

I got a SE SuperDrive for $30, Mac mini G4 for $32 (because it came /w PSU), my main Macbook 09 for $50  ......

Of course, the mini is going up in price because now there’s a version of OS 9 that can run natively, as well as MorphOS..

I’m also looking into getting another SE for $30 locally. (No mouse or keyboard) 

AND!!! Expensive Vs. Affordable. When I look a the sold SEs on eBay, I see broken, cracked, abused machines selling for upwards of $100.

Sombody has the expense to afford that.

I do not.

There are also clean and good working SEs selling for $40.

I don’t know what the pattern / mystery is.

 

[CompaqMac]

In 1996, I bought a 3’ x 3’ x 6’ cage of computers from a Salvation Army for $100 flat.

From that haul, I got about 11 9pin monitors, various Microsoft type computers, and 2 Q-950s, a WGS 95, and a Q-800.

Trashed all the Microsoft stuff,  sold one of the 950s for $100, which made the whole lot free.

2 years ago, I sold the WGS card for $150.

Other things I got for free / saved from being put in the trash; SE, SE/30, Classic II, G3 DT, G3 AIO, PB 520, G4 iBook.

If ya keep looking and be patient, they can be found free or cheap.

I got a SE SuperDrive for $30, Mac mini G4 for $32 (because it came /w PSU), my main Macbook 09 for $50  ......

Of course, the mini is going up in price because now there’s a version of OS 9 that can run natively, as well as MorphOS..

I’m also looking into getting another SE for $30 locally. (No mouse or keyboard) 

AND!!! Expensive Vs. Affordable. When I look a the sold SEs on eBay, I see broken, cracked, abused machines selling for upwards of $100.

Sombody has the expense to afford that.

I do not.

There are also clean and good working SEs selling for $40.

I don’t know what the pattern / mystery is.

I bought an SE FDHD for $40 this week off of Craiglist in California.  It’s pretty yellowed, but the case is in good shape besides that.  Harddrive won’t boot but the CRT looks good.  Finding this machine is actually what prompted me to start this thread.  I offered the $40 without knowing whether the machine would turn on because the seller had no power cable and I had to drive 40 minutes to get it (i.e. I was going to buy it, broken or not, once I got there).  I wasn’t  sure if I was getting over zealous for machines without keyboards and mice, but it was the first local one Ive found in weeks of searching.

 

[LaPorta]

Sombody has the expense to afford that.

I do not.

Even though I could afford that, there’s no way I’d pay that price for something all messed up that I didn’t even know if it worked or not.

 

[jimjimx]

I bought an SE FDHD for $40 this week off of Craiglist in California.  It’s pretty yellowed, but the case is in good shape besides that.  Harddrive won’t boot but the CRT looks good.  Finding this machine is actually what prompted me to start this thread.  I offered the $40 without knowing whether the machine would turn on because the seller had no power cable and I had to drive 40 minutes to get it (i.e. I was going to buy it, broken or not, way once I got there).  

Fantastic!!!  How did it turn out? Is it working? Did it have a reverse zero volt battery? (That’s when they “explode”)

A year ago I found a “Jackery Powerbar” for $100, and I can show up and power up a compact Mac off of it for about a hour and a half, so I’m going to bring that with me when I get the $30 SE, along with a boot floppy, mouse & keyboard, along with one of the 3rd party “Mac bags” to carry it. Oh! That’s another thing. In ‘97 I got a 512kE /w ext floppy, key & mouse, and 3rd party bag for $17 at thrift store, bought another 3rd party bag on eBay for $25, and the official Apple bag on Craigslist for $20.

 

[Mu0n]

Plus: THE nostalgia computer as far as I'm concerned. It's the one we had (that I still have) and gives unparalleled access to weird games or very old software that predate System 6 by years and are badly coded with straight memory addresses and would crash on a SE. It's not easy bringing software to it in 2019 (you need another machine or floppyemu) and more speed would be kind of nice in some games (SE or SE/30 levels).

SE: with a working HD, is just a charm. Has some compatibility issues with some very olden things. Much cheaper than a SE/30, I got it as a backup compact in case my Plus went dead in the 00's

SE/30: I got this one free in a big lot along with a water damaged 512k (which I didn't keep), a iifx (which worked for a bit, then died - I didn't keep it) a LCIII (works I think, but needs an external HD plugged in). I didn't have the time and skills 15 years ago to repair the ones which didn't work but I'm glad I have a "speedy" compact mac for my System 7 needs since it's miserable on my Plus (but it's now moot because my Hyperdrive FX/20 external I was using with my Plus has kicked it and I'm looking to repair it).

 

[Crutch]

Has anyone tried SCSI Ethernet on a Plus? I’m using an Asante EN/SC on my SE/30 (accelerator plus grayscale so no room for a Maccon) and it works brilliantly. 

 

[jimjimx]

@LaPorta

you forgot to quote “expensive Vs. affordable”

Right now, I have a SE/30 that’s fully happy, and a turbo 040, just sitting in a box. 

I sent the IIx adapter to @Trash80toHP_Mini to help with it. 

The adaptor for the SE/30 is a *bit* expensive, (but I understand the work that was put into it, and appreciate it) and currently unaffordable.

It’ll cost me $90 to get it!!

Right now, that’s both..

Its a fking adapter!!!

....p and, I sent off my adapter for the IIx, to have the GAL read to help with this.....

 

[Brett B.]

Really just a case by case basis.  If something needs 5 hours of my time and $30 of capacitors and will be worth $30 when it's fixed, it better be free.  A nice clean item that I think I can break even on if I decide to sell off later is a good buy.  

Assigning arbitrary minimum values to things is an exercise in futility.

 

[CompaqMac]

Fantastic!!!  How did it turn out? Is it working? Did it have a reverse zero volt battery? (That’s when they “explode”)

Yes, it powered on, and the CRT looked perfect.  The HD was making a lot of noise and would never boot.  I’ve since torn it down, and the logic board was clean.  I took out the socketed purple Tadiran battery (10/1989) without issue.

I’m awaiting some supplies to fully service both this SE and my Mac Plus, so I will try to give more updates (beg for help most likely) on both in the near future. 

 

[jimjimx]

Fantastic!  I love to hear good news.