Low Density 6.0.x? 7.0.x?

[CelGen]

I won't ask where to find it for obvious reasons but from what I have seen so far, versions of 7.0.1 and 6.0.8 are only available in high density 1.44mb disk image formats which I find rather odd. Were they really only available in that format or was the low density releases just that uncommon?

 

[bibilit]

As far as i know, those where available in 800 k as well for abvious reasons, the SE was available at first with a 800 k floppy drive(s)

The 800 k disks where 4 instead of 2 for the 1.44 size.

 

[CC_333]

Are we talking physical media, or downloadable disk images?

The low-density images are fairly common, aren't they? I know Apple had 800k images of 6.0.8 available for years.

Physical media, I have no idea, but if an 800k SE were released in the late System 6/early System 7 era, wouldn't it have come with the appropriate physical SSW6 media?

c

 

[TheWhiteFalcon]

The Apple archive had 6 and 7 in 800k images.

 

[raoulduke]

It seems Apple started selling System software with 7.1, so I'm going to be so bold:

ftp://ftp.cs.tu-berlin.de/pub/mac/sys/os/us-english/[for System 6]

http://macintoshgarden.org/sites/macintoshgarden.org/files/apps/System_7_0.smi__0.sit[for 7.0]

These presumably still fall under the original license agreement.

 

[CC_333]

Yeah, I think you're safe with those. System 7.1 and up (as well as System 5 and below for some odd reason) are the ones you shouldn't ever post here, as my understanding is that doing so would be considered an act of piracy per the forum rules.

c

 

[raoulduke]

I was under the impression the same was true of everything before 6 also. What's the difference?  (That's not facetious, what is the actual difference if you know?)

 

[CC_333]

I think the difference is that Apple didn't post Systems 5 and below on their FTP servers, hence people couldn't redistribute them online because the license agreement doesn't have provisions for it. I think??

c

 

[Paralel]

It's my understanding, that based on the distribution agreement, anything from the first system/finder release until System 7.0.1 is fair game to post, anything beyond that is a no-no, unless it was posed by Apple for free on their FTP server, then it's OK.

Also, 800k is Double Density, not low density. Low Density is 400k disks.

The hierarchy is low density, double density, high density.

 

[markyb86]

I have a feeling they didn't post anything before 6.0, because that FTP was up when dial-up was the standard, and 6.0 will run on every older mac till you start getting into the 68020s iirc. and then 7.0 will get you until the ppcs. So they had most bases covered without having 100 more sit files.

 

[unity]

^ They posted systems going all the way back. Its where I made my first archive from back in the 90s. I think the directory was even called "older system". They also stored all the Newton releases there. In fact, there is still stuff there.

To expand on Paralel's post, anything from 7 Pro up is a no-no to post technically. Excluding updates which are not full systems. But I am not sure if that is true anymore since Apple themselves has 7.5.3 as a complete download right not. And I am not sure what else is out there since I have not poked around the server yet, but there is more. So Apple may have abandoned System 7. Maybe even 8 (which I doubt).

A link to 7.0, I guess smaller disk images are inside this single download. But I have not checked.

http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English -North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_7.0.x/System_7.0.smi.bin

 

[johnklos]

Apple's policy has always been that if you can show proof of ownership of either Apple original floppy disks or a physical machine, they'd give you a copy of either the OS that was on those floppies or the OS that came with the physical machine. Many years ago I first got a copy of System 6 for use with A-MAX (Macintosh emulation on Amiga) because someone had given me System 6 disks which had been overwritten but still had the original Apple stickers.

 

[raoulduke]

I recall unity being correct about earlier systems being up there; but maybe I'm misremembering.  I suspect Apple (probably expressly in the license itself) can modify the terms of the agreement unilaterally.  However, I see no reason to suspect they've done that.  I suspect 'what's on their ftp' was just an easy standard to gauge Apple's disposition toward potential litigation - and also toward that potential modification (of the concerned licenses).  That works both ways; as Paralel basically notes, anything posted on their ftp server they've presumably released publicly - though that may or may not affect the license (I don't have time to find and read all these licenses now, and I don't think there's any litigation directly concerning them).  I think CelGen said Apple had been sending out various cease and desist orders to other hosts.  But most or all of the Older Software List files are still on Apple's servers.  They've just removed the index page.

Sorry; this stuff really does fascinate me for a variety of reasons.

John that corporate policy is related to licensing - because the machine would entitle you to a license; and then giving out the software establishes that the license entitles you to use of the software.  (Or did back in the day But that policy I suspect doesn't exist (anymore).  I emailed them a few months ago asking how one would legally acquire System 7.6.  I don't expect a response.  Because my understanding is buying a used copy doesn't entitle one, at least automatically, to a license - and thus buying a used copy and using it on a legit Mac might still be theoretically tortious.

 

[markyb86]

and thus buying a used copy and using it on a legit Mac might still be theoretically tortious.

If the original owner has erased any drive of which that copy of the OS was installed, the used copy should still be legitimate. 

 

[raoulduke]

But - again without reference to specific licensing text or case law - the license passes from Apple to the buyer. The buyer cannot simply resell it as only Apple possesses that right. If the license is solely activated with use it becomes more complicated.

But it's not worth Apple's money to litigate any of this - up to and including Yosemite. Psystar is a very unusual exception.

 

[Charlieman]

To expand on Paralel's post, anything from 7 Pro up is a no-no to post technically. Excluding updates which are not full systems. But I am not sure if that is true anymore since Apple themselves has 7.5.3 as a complete download right not. 

So Apple may have abandoned System 7. 

System 6.0.x has been available for donkey's years from Apple via FTP/HTTP. At release time, it was available via boards and disk swaps, for the price of a disk.

System 7.0.x -- ditto.

System 7.1 changed the rules. You had to buy disks from a dealer, but multi-packs were available. System 7 Pro was a clever bundle, worth nowt because you could assemble the components for free. But System 7.1.x was never released on an Apple FTP/HTTP site.

System 7.5.x onwards -- ditto on 7.1 rules.

USA or USA state consumer rights law changed a few years later, and Apple treated this in two ways. For most old customers (anywhere in the world), System 7.5.3 was made available as a free download. Those who could not download or required a later OS version could phone an interview centre to establish their credentials for an appropriate OS CD in the post.

System 6 and System 7 have not been abandoned by Apple. All rights reserved

 

[Paralel]

^ They posted systems going all the way back. Its where I made my first archive from back in the 90s. I think the directory was even called "older system". They also stored all the Newton releases there. In fact, there is still stuff there.

To expand on Paralel's post, anything from 7 Pro up is a no-no to post technically. Excluding updates which are not full systems. But I am not sure if that is true anymore since Apple themselves has 7.5.3 as a complete download right not. And I am not sure what else is out there since I have not poked around the server yet, but there is more. So Apple may have abandoned System 7. Maybe even 8 (which I doubt).

A link to 7.0, I guess smaller disk images are inside this single download. But I have not checked.

http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English -North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_7.0.x/System_7.0.smi.bin

It actually predates System 7 Pro, Apple charged for 7.1 upgrade disks. 7.0.1 was the very last "free" version, which works out pretty well, since it was also the very last "full" system that was omnicompatible with all current macs that existed as of its creation (I don't consider the 7.5 NAD to count since its not a full system file, it has limitations). Don't forget to run System Tune-Up 1.1.1 for 7.0.1.

So, you can go up to 7.0.1, then skip up to 7.5.3, and I'm not too sure after that, since I never stray beyond 7.1.2

And, after posting, I can see Charlieman Ninja'd me to the explanation for System 7.1

For System 7.1.2, don't forget to run System Update 3.

 

[raoulduke]

Fascinating

 

[johnklos]

There've been plenty of attempts of companies to claim ownership of software that is only licensed and therefore cannot be transferred. There have also been plenty of decisions showing that this isn't possible except in specific cases. To make hardware incapable of running by somehow revoking a software license has never worked, nor is it anything that Apple has ever done. Microsoft has tried this time and time again with Windows licenses and has been shot down in pretty much every case that has actually gone to court.

My point is that the idea of software being non-tranferrable is not anything any reasonable company still tries to practice, nor is it something that Apple has ever attempted.