Booting System 7 from ZIP: Can't replicate experiment

[CelGen]

I managed to pull this off ONCE and didn't bother trying it again until now and I can't seem to figure out what I did to create the original result.

From what I recall, I initialized a regular 100mb ZIP disk using the onboard drive in my 8600 (I was running system 9.1). I then Installed system 7.5 and then 7.5.3 on it and made sure the disk was in a state where the system folder was blessed properly. I then dmped the 7.5 installer 7.5.3 updater ont he disk along with some disk tools and a few handy applications that I would need to initially set the system up (notably the ZIP drive installer).

I then plugged a SCSI ZIP drive into a quadra 700 I recently received, fed it my ZIP disk, and powered the system on. I was able to boot from it, initialize the hard disk, and then install system 7.5.

This was so successful I made another disk which would allow me to install 7.6. It too also worked.

Fast forward three or four years and here I am with a Powerbook 180 that needs an install, and a quadra 700 whose hard drive has give up the ghost and also needs an install as well.

I tried to boot from a zip disk on both systems and besides for the initial activity light blink from when the drive was probed by the system, nothing happened.

I assumed I had forgotten something like a jumper floppy but I double checked and that is not possible. Even a simple 7.5 install is too big for one floppy and if that was the case, what was the point of me putting a working system on the disk itself?

I ahve tried several different SCSI zip drives (including the special autosensing Plus version) as well as the drive I originally used and I still can't replicate my results. I'm stumped.

 

[phreakout]

I'll do some digging, but iirc, you either have to have a specific driver for that Mac to recognize ZIP drives or there is a keystroke work-around during boot up. Not sure if it was Cmd + Option + Shift + Del + SCSI ID # or something to that degree. Hang on.

73s de Phreakout. :rambo:

 

[avw]

The missing system extention for the SCSI Zip was the first thing I thought about as well. There has bee an extention for recognising the ZIP drives for MacOS before 8 (I think it was 8 which first had the driver implemented).

I could always boot with "command - option - shift - backspace" that simply bypasses the selected boot drive, and boots from the next availaible.

 

[phreakout]

Okay, after some digging, it looks like you need to verify that the proper driver for the Zip disk/drive has been installed. If you don't have one, go online and Google "ccadams". Yes, I know, that site caters to the Mac SE, but the author has posted lots of useful software tools with regards to troubleshooting. You'll want to click on the link on the front page that says, "Adding hard drives and removables". The last third of that document talks about booting up using a removable disk, along with a link for downloading a driver that will work on Zip disks.

If after getting the driver taken care of and it still won't mount, check to see that the System Folder has been "blessed" properly (open and close the folder on a working System 6/7/8/9 Mac). Another thing would be to force the Mac into booting off of that disk and drive. Before doing anything, make sure you take note of what SCSI ID the external or internal drive is set as. Also verify that the cabling is good and that proper SCSI termination has been checked. Restart your Mac and press the following keys: Apple + Option + Shift + Delete + (SCSI ID # of drive). You might need an additional pair of hands to attempt those keystrokes, unless you've got long enough and limber fingers to attempt it yourself. }

Mac World Mac Secrets, 5th Edition by David Pogue and Joseph Schorr doesn't say much with regards to booting off of a Zip disk. They just mention how to mount a disk without the driver (wait for the "Welcome to Macintosh" and then insert the disk). I'll check the 4th Edition to see if they have anything useful to add.

73s de Phreakout. :rambo:

 

[CelGen]

It isn't a problem with mounting the disks or them being blessed or not. I can confirm that they mount fine with a driver on a ssytem which already ahs an OS installed on it and that it sees the system folder as blessed. I just can not seem to get a system to boot from the drive on its own with no action from any possibly installed OS on the internal ahrd drive.

I'll retry the key combinations tomorrow. The zip drive can be set to either ID 5 or 6 and has automatic powered termination on it.

 

[register]

It is possible to use the ZIP drive even without a proprietary driver installed (or else the Mac could not mount the drive from the SCSI driver stored in ROM). What should work anyway, is to use Harddisk Toolkit (HDT) to initialise the ZIP disk. Afterwards install a system onto the disk or just copy and bless a system folder onto the disk. You can choose the disk as a startup volume in the control panel. In case the disk is inserted in the ZIP drive on startup, the Mac should use it. If it is not present at startup, the Mac automatically uses the next valid boot drive it finds on the SCSI bus.

To modify the startup disk temporarily, use the appropriate key combo, as given in the List of startup keys.

Using HDT you could even choose a specific boot partition from your boot disk.

 

[CelGen]

I could swear it was not that complex. I just popped it into a zip drive on a mac with no previous install and it worked.

Oh well, I'll mess with it again.