• Updated 2023-07-12: Hello, Guest! Welcome back, and be sure to check out this follow-up post about our outage a week or so ago.

Yet another IIci internal video thread (and a rambling tale at no extra cost)

gcp

Well-known member
More out of stubbornness than any practical reason, I'd like to get a monitor working with the internal video on my IIci. Please feel free to skip over all of the narrative below and jump to the last paragraph, where I actually ask the relevant question.

Well, if I were to come up with a justification, it's that I'm thinking my Toby video card that's currently working with it is going to give up the ghost at some point. I'm amazed that it works now, actually - I accidentally left out in the elements (including a couple of rain storms) for about 3-4 months after I acquired it. In my defense I had been told that the whole stack of cards was nonfunctional... so imagine my surprise when in a fit of desperation to actually get my IIci *working*, after failing to get any sort of video signal out of it at all, I plugged in the rusted out Toby card and got a nice stable 640x480 8bit picture out!

So fast forward to now, when I am once again interested in trying to sync with the internal video signal.

I had been using this IIci (and a Q650 & PM 8500) with a Dell P1914S.. which works and looks great with the exception that it's 5:4 native rather than 4:3, and I don't see a way to have it scale with a constrained aspect ratio.. so geometry is always a little off when using it with 4:3 resolutions, such as the 640x480 that I'm stuck with, with the Toby.

The story might have ended there, if the P1914S would sync with 1152 x 864 @ 72Hz... but it only syncs at that resolution at 68Hz. What relevance does this have, you might wonder? It means that it will only sync with my ADB NextStation when it boots without the monitor cable connected, forcing it to fall back to the non-ADB refresh rate of 68Hz rather than the native 72Hz. So, in order to no longer have to deal with cable swapping on every boot, I picked up a NEC MultiSync 2090UXi, which is 4:3 native and supports the NextStation's native frequency.

The thought crossed my mind, that maybe this NEC display would sync with the IIci's internal video signal but... no dice.

Which, finally!, brings me to my questions... What are the particulars of the video signal? 75Hz 640x480 w/ sync-on-green? That.. doesn't seem too outlandish for a modern(ish) display right? Beyond that, how can I verify that the video circuitry is working, absent a compatible display? Are there things to rule out - like SIMMs being present in bank 0.. anything else?
 

KGLlewellyn

Well-known member
I've found the Sync-On-Green to be a major headache when trying to use any non-Apple CRT...to the point that none of my non-Apple CRT's will sync with my IIci & IIsi. With LCDs on the other hand, I've found that almost all of them seem to be okay with the SoG, so if you want to validate the video circuitry, I'd suggest you get a DA-15 to VGA adapter (with dipswitches) and hook a LCD you have laying around up. Chances are it'll probably work.

If you're determined to get your NEC working, you might want to look at converting the SoG to a separate sync using some kind of active adapter, although the amount of effort involved might not be worth your bother as from my casual research, it indicates this is something you have to assemble together using an LM1881 - https://electronics.stackexchange.c...t-a-sync-on-green-to-vga-seperate-sync-signal https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/153478/convert-sog-to-vga-using-lm1881 - Unfortunately, your IIci will only initialize the internal video if it detects a display connected to it. You could try having one display hooked up to the video card and another hooked to the internal video out and see if two monitors show up in the Monitors control panel. The internal video is pretty simple iirc, it just utilizes a portion of the IIci's internal RAM.

I haven't looked into your NEC 2090UXi whether it supports SoG or not, but if it's failing to sync, then that'll probably be most likely why. 640x480 @ 75Hz would otherwise be supported by almost all multisync monitors.

You may also find it worthwhile keeping an eye out for an Apple CRT nearby, ideal models are the AppleColor High-Resolution Display (640x480), or the Apple 12" RGB Display (512x384). The AppleColor is a far nicer display as it's a Trinitron, and definitely worth it if you can find one locally. The 12" RGB's are easier to find, but are lower resolution and many applications will refuse to work with it because it's too small.
 

Unknown_K

Well-known member
Sony Trinitrons do SOG just fine.

The IIci supports 512x384 or 640x480 at 8 bit and 640x870 at 4 bit resolution. I think the resolution is 60hz or slightly under (which would cause issues with LCD monitors that can't sync below 60 hz).
 

gcp

Well-known member
I'm beginning to wonder if there is an issue with the motherboard preventing the internal video from working. Sync on green should not be an issue. I wouldn't think a < 60hz signal would give either the Dell or the NEC monitors I've tried any headaches either.

Any good troubleshooting guides anyone can recommend?
 

gcp

Well-known member
Just to follow up on this:

I revisited this issue yesterday after picking up an HDMI scaler. I was struggling to get the scaler to work with the nubus video card (figured I'd get it working there first, then try to switch over to the internal video). I dusted off one of my old DB15-HD15 adapters, and found a note stuck to my monitor "IIci internal - 1,4,6,7". Tried those settings and it synced up great with my NEC LCD. Could have *sworn* I had tried that before - I must be losing my mind.

So, happy ending. Nothing wrong with my IIci motherboard it seems, and now I have the internal video working with my 4:3 native LCD.

For future reference, the NEC identifies the signal as 640 x 480, 66.7Hz, SOG [there seems to be some debate/confusion about whether the signal is actually sync on green or composite sync + SOG.. just reporting what the monitor says]
 

trag

Well-known member
The old Viewsonic 4E, 5E (14" and 15" CRTs respectively) worked with the IICi/IIsi. These CRTs were sold back in the mid to late 90s though, so finding them....
 
I had really trouble finding or making suitable adapter which would convert the signal from II ci for any of my not-SoG monitors. No dice. So I got frustrated and bought a second-hand Dell display (P2314H) which works great. In fact most Dell monitors I looked for do actually SoG.

I don't mind if the image is not perfect 4:3, as long as I have an image :)
 
Top