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What would be the perfect SE/30

fabian

Active member
I would love to hear what you think is the perfect SE/30 setup?

I get that I should have 128 mb ram
What about the Mac ROM-inator II

Thoughts on MacSD or SCSI2SD ?

Accelerator? DiiMO 030, Daystar Turbo 040 

Ethernet Card MacCon+30iET64

Videocard för grayscale?

If you could pick and choose any expansions and modifications, what would you do? Without taking into account price or rarity.

Original casing or the clear case from MacEffects?

What keyboard and mouse?

What operating system runs best?

I would love to hear what people think! Any links to information, ebay sales for cool parts etc. is much appreciated!

 

maceffects

Well-known member
My personal machine has Artmix Aztecmonster CF but now I'd probably use the MacSD given that it was easier for me.  Some people had sucess with the SCSI2SD.  I also have the card @Bolle created for Ethernet as well as accelerator adapter.  Thus I have the 040 in my machine.  Currently in progress is my next project of recreating the Micron Xceed, which is going much slower than I had hoped.  I really think Apple should have provided the Mac with Grayscale when now... 

Regarding the case, I'm too heavily biased for an opinion on that subject. Though, I will say if you have a pristine and non-yellowed case that may be favorable compared to the clear case.  In any event you can't go wrong with the SE/30 they are great machines. 

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
I'm not such a fan of SE/30 internal grayscale as I am of throwing 1152x870 in 8-bit at my 21" Radius primary display with the SE/30 perched atop the IIfx sitting next to it. So if it passes compatibility testing on the SE/30 PDS, my choice would be a customized adapter for my SuperMac Spectrum8 si and 50MHz PowerCache P33. I've got a few Asante NICs, but to get the 8-bit TPD card in there I'd opt for SCSI based Ethernet in a heartbeat if necessary

 
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fabian

Active member
I also have the card @Bolle created for Ethernet as well as accelerator adapter.  Thus I have the 040 in my machine. 
What exactly does the card do? 

It's this card you are talking about, right? Does this adapter provide a conenction for an accelerator that otherwise wouldn't fit in the SE/30? What accelerarator do you have? Which is the best one?

Currently in progress is my next project of recreating the Micron Xceed, which is going much slower than I had hoped.
Recreating the Micron Xceed? As in building a copy of the card itself? What does this card provide?

Regarding the case, I'm too heavily biased for an opinion on that subject. Though, I will say if you have a pristine and non-yellowed case that may be favorable compared to the clear case.  In any event you can't go wrong with the SE/30 they are great machines. 
I can tell. But the clear case is really pretty, it's a bit on the pricey side, but if the SE/30 i buy doesn't have a mint condition case then I'll probably get a clear one. One question though, the clear case doesn't have the colorful apple logo does it?

I'm not such a fan of SE/30 internal grayscale as I am of throwing 1152x870 in 8-bit at my 21" Radius primary display with the SE/30 perched atop the IIfx sitting next to it. So if it passes compatibility testing on the SE/30 PDS, my choice would be a customized adapter for my SuperMac Spectrum8 si and 50MHz PowerCache P33. I've got a few Asante NICs, but to get the 8-bit TPD card in there I'd opt for SCSI based Ethernet in a heartbeat if necessary
I'm still trying to wrap my head around all the things here. Would you mind explaining a bit more in detail?

What display do you have? A "full page" or "two page"? The SE/30 doesn't have a video output, so I guess you would need a card to be able to run an external display. I saw a Classic for sale with a big screen, would a card from the classic work in the SE/30?

Is there any downside with the SCSI Based ethernet?

 

cheesestraws

Well-known member
If you could pick and choose any expansions and modifications, what would you do? Without taking into account price or rarity.
Personally, I like "close to stock feel, but smoother/quieter."  RAM is good, though 128MB is arguably overkill.  Personally I'd probably stick with 64, because IIRC to fit 128 in you have to bend the frame.  (I may be wrong here).

Never bothered personally, though some people really like them.  Being able to boot from a ROM disc is quite nice, especially if you've got lots of RAM.  Note, though, that the Mac ROM-inator II boards are very very slightly the wrong width for the ROM SIMM slot (imperial vs. metric PCB thicknesses, I believe) and so can cause trouble.  People have resorted to using elastic bands: one person on this forum made very nifty 3D printed ROM clips to keep them in place.

My personal ideal SE/30 can run A/UX, and accelerators are likely to muck about with that.  But if you want "the 040 compact mac that never was", then you can do this.  I keep a vague eye on accelerators but haven't bought one.

Thoughts on MacSD or SCSI2SD ? 
People have had repeatable issues with the scsi2sd v6 in SE/30s, to the point where I'd hesitate to either recommend one for that purpose.  v5s seem to work OK.  My MacSD only arrived on Friday so I haven't had a chance to try it with an SE/30 yet, but other folks on here say it works.  Note that the MacSD comes with a mount for the drive bay, the scsi2sd doesn't.

Ethernet Card
If I were getting one of these, I'd probably get one of @Bolle's combination ethernet/cache adapter cards, as someone else mentioned upthread.  Ethernet is handy, and in an "ultimate" build definitely should be in there, but pragmatically speaking, you can get quite a long way with LocalTalk and a bridge (you don't have to buy a dedicated bridge, you can use another Mac with ethernet to do it if you have one around).

Videocard för grayscale? 
Grayscale on the internal monitor always feels a bit odd to me.  I really like the high contrast black and white, so I'd probably leave that as is.

Original casing or the clear case from MacEffects?
The clear case is a really nice thing.  It is not to my personal æsthetic taste, so I have no particular desire to get one myself, but for those who like how it looks it is a very nice upgrade.  @maceffects did a really nice job as far as I can see.

Recreating the Micron Xceed? As in building a copy of the card itself? What does this card provide?
This is the greyscale card that can (if you can find the right gubbins) do greyscale on the internal screen.  Sought-after and expensive, hence the urge to clone it for people who want something to work rather than something 100% vintage.

The SE/30 doesn't have a video output, so I guess you would need a card to be able to run an external display. I saw a Classic for sale with a big screen, would a card from the classic work in the SE/30? 
Yup, you would need a video card in the SE/30 to drive an external monitor. Various options are available.  It does need to be an SE/30 card, though, so a card for a Classic won't work.  The compact Macs never had a "standard" expansion bus, unfortunately.

If you want something a bit funky, there are also SCSI based external video "cards".  Mostly designed for PowerBooks, but they'll work with desktops too.

Is there any downside with the SCSI Based ethernet?
SCSI Ethernet is really useful, especially if you have multiple older Macs that you tend to only use one at a time :) .  It's not quite as fast as internal, but then the files you're going to be transporting onto and off an SE/30 probably aren't enormous, so in practice it doesn't matter that much.

I think one of the reasons why this is such an interesting thing to talk about is that you have very real physical space constraints in there, and especially the video card / network / accelerator trio, as far as I know you can only really have two (and even then your choice is somewhat constrained).

 

Crutch

Well-known member
I agree with most of what @cheesestraws said.

I have an Xceed w/ grayscale, it’s an amazing piece of engineering, I’m glad I have it and every so often I just sort of pause and admire it.  But it’s totally impractical, doesn’t let you really use much old color software or games anyway (since the games all except 640x480) and they are ridiculously expensive and prone to have issues (I got mine ... which I found at a reasonable price only because an eBay seller didn’t know what it was and I noticed it within a few hours of being listed ... working only with a ton of patience with a scope I bought for the purpose, excellent guidance from @Bolle and @techknight a couple years ago, and finding some needed replacement ICs on Mouser ... there’s a thread about it on here somewhere).  In short, I don’t exactly recommend bothering, but if you happen to stumble on one for less than the $1000+ going rate, you will enjoy it.

I recommend an 030 accelerator (I run a Diimo and it’s flawless).  The 040 accelerators start to break some of the older software.

I also run SCSI Ethernet (my setup is Diimo + Xceed which leaves no room for internal Ethernet) and it’s just as good as internal, you would never know the difference for what we’re using these machines for today ... which is for “occasional file transfers” most likely.  My suggestion since you want a video card would be, accelerator + vid card + SCSI Ethernet.  I use an Asante EN/SC but there are also Dayna and Farallon adapters that people have used.

 

cheesestraws

Well-known member
I have an Xceed w/ grayscale, it’s an amazing piece of engineering, I’m glad I have it and every so often I just sort of pause and admire it.  But it’s totally impractical, doesn’t let you really use much old color software or games anyway (since the games all except 640x480) and they are ridiculously expensive and prone to have issues
Yup, my feelings exactly.  They're an amazing piece of engineering and, for "use" purposes, pretty near useless :) .  This probably partly accounts for their rarity now, honestly.

 
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Dimitris

Member
The ideal SE/30 for me is the following:

- Definitely 128MB of ram

- Asante ehternet either MacCon or scsi ethernet. If you choose MacCon PDS be aware to have the daughter card that can split in half so if you buy a radius pivot or similar card to use the same daughter card for output the screen plug.

- i would suggest diimo 030 or daystar powercache  50Mhz p33 as with turbo 040 you cannot use Mac ROM-inator II . It is mentioned in their site. Because the accelerators have issues with more than 512k rom. you can try to find the rom from IIsi or IIfx which are compatible wth se/30

- Micron Xceed is for my opinion the best choice but be careful with incompatibilities with daystar products.

- radius pivot for mac iisi is a very good alternative and to have in the side a new tft monitor for seeing everything in color with proper adapter mac to vga.

- Apple CD scsi 300 or 600 internal with external case not from apple or external apple original, if you like to install A/UX. With other CD players, i don't believe that you can bypass the checks from install program. 

- Purchase external terminator adapters for SCSI bus, just to be safe your scsi bus is terminated properly, otherwise it will not work.

What i have done in mine is I've purchased an iomega Jaz 2GB drive. so with 2GB disks you can have backups, extra software etc. so you do not have to worry if everything fails and need to install from the scratch. 

I don't have an opinion on MacSD or SCSI2SD.

you can always search for apple HDD scsi 2GB or 4GB or 9GB. you can see for Apple IBM DDRS 39130 or Apple IBM DDRS 34560 or Apple IBM 2GB i don't recall the exact number

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
I'm not such a fan of SE/30 internal grayscale as I am of throwing 1152x870 in 8-bit at my 21" Radius primary display with the SE/30 perched atop the IIfx sitting next to it. So if it passes compatibility testing on the SE/30 PDS, my choice would be a customized adapter for my SuperMac Spectrum8 si and 50MHz PowerCache P33. I've got a few Asante NICs, but to get the 8-bit TPD card in there I'd opt for SCSI based Ethernet in a heartbeat if necessary
I'm still trying to wrap my head around all the things here. Would you mind explaining a bit more in detail?

What display do you have? A "full page" or "two page"?
Radius PrecisionView 2150 is my 21" Two Page Display from the Nineties. It's a high end MultiSync CRT.

Big CRT's are impractical for most folks, so when you go LCD, you'll need to make sure it's able to Sync to a wide range of resolutions and Apple's early, oddball "flicker free" frequencies, which means anything BUT VGA's 60hz standard and the oddball Macintosh 16" resolution of 832 x 624.

As mentioned above, the Radius Pivot II/IIsi was, and is now again until the supply dries up, the economical VidCard of choice with a maximum output of that 836 x 624, "16 inch" standard. With a bit of modification, it fits into the SE/30 and was made to mate perfectly with the Asante MacCon NIC's breakout board or the other way around? Whichever, they cooperated on the designs for the IIsi and the combo works wonderfully for the SE/30.

 

s_pupp

Well-known member
I have an SE/30 with 128MB RAM, Xceed with grayscale card, and DayStar 50MHz P33. It has an external Asante SCSI ethernet adapter. For storage, it has a 1GB Transcend industrial compact flash in an IDE adapter connected to an Acard AEC-7720U SCSI converter. I consider it to be my “perfect SE/30.”

It currently exists disassembled in a closet since my move to my current home ten years ago. My office is far too cluttered with PowerBooks at the moment to reassemble it.
 

zigzagjoe

Well-known member
The best SE/30 (or mac for that matter) is the one you have in hand and are enjoying. That said, my personal ideal SE/30 turned into the following.
  • 2GB IBM HDD
  • 128MB Mitsubishi RAM (it's overkill, but the machine came to me with it 20 years ago)
  • Socketed Diimo 50 clone (sub for a socketed powercache)
  • Micron Xceed Color 30HR w/ Grayscale
  • Asante Maccon w/ the removable AUI board and right angle connector
While the grayscale is admittedly more of a gimmick than a life changing upgrade, it is cool and does let you use an external color monitor to run some additional software that is appropriate for the vintage. Two birds with one stone in my eyes, means I don't need two machines to do that. Likewise the ethernet card is a nice to have for file transfer and playing around with A/UX.

Something important to know - not all accelerators break A/UX! I've been using A/UX with my Diimo clone, and it screams! Engage the cache before booting A/UX and it's even better. I haven't spent a lot of time in A/UX yet to confirm absolute 100% stability, but no obvious issues, so I think there's at least a good chance of some 030 accelerators being compatible. The 040 ones are of course right out, and to me, if I wanted an 040 I'd find a compact quadra instead.
 

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oldmacuser

Well-known member
I agree! one that works and one that you have is the ideal SE30! :) And thanks for confirming that some accelerators do work! That is good information.
 

Phipli

Well-known member
32MB RAM, 2GB Spinning Rust, Ethernet, 1024x768@24bit video out and a PowerCache 50MHz with FPU.

AEK2, square mouse and an embroidery dust cover.

External CD and Zip that works. Apple One Scanner and a LaserWriter Pro 600.

Already recapped and with a new battery.

With a comfy chair and a muffin.
 

oldmacuser

Well-known member
I keep switching back and forth between apple keyboard mouse (adb) and modern usb setup. it's just that my usb setup has the smaller footprint and I don't really have to clean the mouse wheels and the ball... haha. but I love using those old apple keyboard and mouse so I switched back to apple setup again.
 
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