Welcome back!

[Cory5412]

The old theme was no more compatible with screen reading software than this one is.

My impression of Snitz is that it worked very well on older browsers, but that it was hellaciously difficult (like: impossible) to maintain from a server end of things, because it used that JET database on a Windows server.

I suspect that it would probably be possible to create a theme for the forum using basic tables, html, a more contrasty set of colors, etc, although the question is who will put in the time to create the theme and make sure it does everything we want the forum to do.

 

[IPNixon]

That's not the point. If 10% (or 3%, or 0.5%) of us were blind, and the forum was impossible to use with a text reader, would you consider that acceptable?
IMHO, being able to use the forums from a 68k is a basic requirement, not an optional one.

Then what's the point of having threads like, "Post your youtube [etc] videos here!", or all these links to other sites that can't be viewed on such a machine? A lot of eBay auctions (depending on their styles) can't usually be viewed on a 68k, just to name an example.

 

[trag]

Thank you! for enabling Sub-Silver2. I detest the new look. It may simply be a fear and loathing of change on my part, but frankly, I don't get the attraction of changing things all the time. Once it works, the easiest thing is to leave it alone. Climbing the learning curve is a real cost. But with the SubSilver2 theme in effect, I am happy again.

Of course, I'd still be reading all my Mac conversations on comp.sys.mac.xxxx if that's where the conversations still were. I still don't understand the need for web based fora when there's a nice universal, easy to find, hierarchically arranged-by-topic set of discussion groups that cover every topic under the sun--and quite a few out of the sun too.

It's like I used to tell folks in the 90s when they asked me which computer was the easiest to use. I'd say, "The one you already know how to use is the easiest." Of course, if they didn't already know one, I'd point them at the Mac.

 

[equill]

Regardless of the length of time spent in preparation, which was invisible to all of us but those doing the sweat-work, the implementation—on one visit the old, and on the next, the new—deserves much commendation. Commendation with jam on it, considering that very few genuine hiccups, as distinct from æsthetic or functional considerations, accompanied the transition.

However, I add my disappointment in some aspects of the redesign to that of others. With no clear vertical demarcation between post-column and poster-column, and even with a dark line between them, left-right reading can flick back to a clear vertical left demarcation as a border and proceed to the right-hand natural page-border. The poster-column is presently intrusive on the right, and much more easily overlooked, 'un'-seen or ignored on the left. I, for one, do value a clear indication of who the poster is, but avatar and name is enough detail.

Why retain the multicoloured Apple of antiquity and then bleach it in the same anæmic style as the general forum colouring? Why separate the related links new posts/your posts/unanswered posts? I also value quick access to my and other posters' existing posts. Repeating for the benefit of search-challenged posters is much less attractive than linking to existing answers. This is especially true if the existing answers contain complex sequences of procedure or advice.

I agree about accessibility for older Macs/browsers. Apart from the inevitable (and worthy of congratulation) first-time posts about being able to reach the Forums from an original Mac, none but the foolhardy will spend more than microseconds on the 'Net without firewall, stealth mode, NAT, copious RAM and cast-iron underpants (shorts to them as prefer them), so it is hardly a debility not to be able to use 68K Macs. That the oldies are not equipped is a fact, not a dastardly plot that the universal villains They have hatched. 68K Macs were born before the realities of the Web, good and bad, came to pass.

Overall, a fine structure from ~tl et alii. Now for some military spit-and-polish.

de

 

[steve30]

I changed to SubSilver. It is MUCH better in terms of layout.

 

[Christopher]

I like the deeper colors on the apple. MUCH cooler and more modern.

 

[joshc]

Oh yeah. I mean, 68Ks are SO modern... :

 

[macgeek417]

Death to the new theme!

 

[II2II]

For what it's worth, I spent many moons hoping for a 68k Mac newsgroup before I decided to bother with things like web forums. Newsgroups would work fine on older machines. Indeed, I used them for a fairly long time from an Apple II. First using a shell account, then using QWK packets that were downloaded to the machine and viewed locally.

After all we deal with people talking from behind a keyboard. The demands placed upon the computer, or the user who has to maintain and upgrade that computer, should not be very high.

When I used the usenet, my only machines were antiquated ones. And Apple II in 1997 was my only machine. Not a secondary machine. Not a main machine. It was my only machine. When I hopped on these forums, particularly back in the Snitz days, it was pretty much the same story. Only I was using vintage 68k gear like a IIci or a Q950 as my only machine. Of course, that couldn't be sustained. While the web can be efficiently viewed on a vintage machine, most websites preclude that option because the end user has little control over how it is implemented. With time the people who visited the forums seemed to be less interested in 68k Macs, I suppose, because you couldn't just use a 68k Mac to view it.

Contrast that to the Apple II world, where you can still access comp.sys.apple2 with an Apple II. People still seem to be chatting about the machines, and doing cool stuff with the machines. Maybe it's because the Apple II was a dead end and people didn't move on because there wasn't a better Apple II. Or maybe it's because there was a forum that accepted them.

 

[Christopher]

This theme looks so normal under Mint on firefox.

 

[~Coxy]

Thanks Tom! I find myself comforted and warmed now, after so long using phpbb variants I suspect I shall never be able to leave. ;D

 

[Mike Richardson]

Of course, I'd still be reading all my Mac conversations on comp.sys.mac.xxxx if that's where the conversations still were. I still don't understand the need for web based fora when there's a nice universal, easy to find, hierarchically arranged-by-topic set of discussion groups that cover every topic under the sun--and quite a few out of the sun too.

Unfortunately, USENET seems to be primarily used for file trading and spam now.

I suspect that it would probably be possible to create a theme for the forum using basic tables, html, a more contrasty set of colors, etc, although the question is who will put in the time to create the theme and make sure it does everything we want the forum to do.

I think the best solution would be what I proposed earlier in this thread or the bug thread (I forget which). A universal phpBB forum reader that runs on 68K Macs. REALbasic v1 or v2 would be the easiest way to code this, and the program could run as far back as System 7.5 with Open Transport on at least a 68030. Plus, the program would support any phpBB forum, giving it great utility, and you could compile it for OS X using a newer version of REALbasic. I have the skills but currently not the time to write something like this up.

 

[Christopher]

Not having the page numbers by the words of the thread on the forums is messing me up. I keep thinking the threads are only one page.

 

[MrMacPlus]

Much better!

Though with the extended sig space that is big even for a small sig I might as well expand.

 

[luddite]

For those complaining about not being able to use the forum with a 68K Mac... did anyone actually try? I just logged on with iCab 2.99 on my LC 475 (with CSS disabled) and it's perfectly useable. It's not pretty, mind you and if you enable CSS it goes batshit., but it certainly works.

And it has a very System 7 theme ;-)

Edit: actually the only thing that doesn't translate nicely is the new logo (sorry, Tom!)

 

[funkytoad]

Yeah, this really will take some getting used to. I guess I am glad that we finally made the upgrade. It'll be interesting.

 

[Mike Richardson]

Not having the page numbers by the words of the thread on the forums is messing me up. I keep thinking the threads are only one page.

Changing to Subsilver2 fixed it for me.

I think the Prosilver designers tried to make a pretty theme without thinking about the usability.

 

[gobabushka]

i was about to say, i havent been gone this long! looks good tom! great job! can u put the quick reply back tho?

 

[trag]

I agree with the earlier poster who stated that the work of the changeover was carried off near miraculously--so seemless and without down time.

One thing that still bothers me, even using the SubSilver theme is the "offline" and "On-line" box in the lefthand sidebar. It's larger than the name of the author and very distracting. Is there any way of going back to a little green dot or something similarly unobtrusive? Surely whether that user is on or off line is much less important than his/her identity.

 

[~tl]

One thing that still bothers me, even using the SubSilver theme is the "offline" and "On-line" box in the lefthand sidebar. It's larger than the name of the author and very distracting. Is there any way of going back to a little green dot or something similarly unobtrusive? Surely whether that user is on or off line is much less important than his/her identity.

How's that – I've moved it down to where the Profile/PM/etc buttons are. It should be a bit less obtrusive down there.