TWAIN (film) Scanning

[ronan]

Hi everyone,

I just got a Epson FilmScan 200 for cheap to scan my 35mm films on my SE/30. I finally managed to make it work and here is my current workflow :

- Opening Photoshop 4.0
- File -> Acquire -> TWAIN Scan
- Epson programs/plugin launches
- Tick the six checkboxes in order to scan the 6 negatives
- Wait for the scan
- All scans appear in photoshop in different window
- Save all scans one by one as PSD files
- Transfer those PSD files to my modern Mac with FTP (Fetch). (I have issue with netatalk at the moment, that's why I'm using FTP).


I'm wondering if I could improve that flow. Especially I don't manage to understand well if there's a simpler app than Photoshop to trigger those scans. Starting photoshop, and especially saving all these scans one by one takes a lot of time. Is there any genreic TWAIN application that could scan and save scans ?

In order to improve even more that flow do you know if I could use AppleScript or something else to automate even more the process ?

Thanks !

 

[Burgertrench]

I used to operate scanning equipment for work, it's been a long time but I may be able to provide some advice:
- Instead of Photoshop, use GraphicConverter to open the TWAIN interface, it's a more lightweight application
- There should be a way to scan directly to disk, instead of having to save afterwards. See if such a setting exists in the TWAIN interface.
- Save in TIFF format. Try one with and one without LZW compression if it's an option, as it may slow down the save process, but will produce a smaller file that will transfer faster.
- If you want to automate file transfer, it may be possible to link a folder action to the folder you are saving to depending on your OS version, but I'm not sure if it would be a good idea to kick off a network transfer during a batch of scanning on an SE/30. I would simply copy the files manually afterwards.

 

[beachycove]

I would have thought that just having Photoshop 4 running on an SE/30 would slow things down mightily, never mind scanning into it.

There is a reason DSP accelerator chips were developed (and bought at great expense on Nubus cards and the like) in the 68k era for this kind of work.

 

[croissantking]

Technology Without An Interesting Name haha

 

[ronan]

I used to operate scanning equipment for work, it's been a long time but I may be able to provide some advice:
- Instead of Photoshop, use GraphicConverter to open the TWAIN interface, it's a more lightweight application
- There should be a way to scan directly to disk, instead of having to save afterwards. See if such a setting exists in the TWAIN interface.
- Save in TIFF format. Try one with and one without LZW compression if it's an option, as it may slow down the save process, but will produce a smaller file that will transfer faster.
- If you want to automate file transfer, it may be possible to link a folder action to the folder you are saving to depending on your OS version, but I'm not sure if it would be a good idea to kick off a network transfer during a batch of scanning on an SE/30. I would simply copy the files manually afterwards.

Thanks for that detailed answer !

Unfortunately I went through the manual, and also though the "TWAIN interface" but I don't think there's a way to directly scan to disk. Here are some screenshots (nothing to play with, weirdly I cannot even set the Scanning Quality to "Fine") :



That's very frustrating because it makes the process very long especially when you have 36 pictures to scan !

As you seem familiar with scanning equipment I'd like to ask you a question to make sure I fully understand the scanning resolution of this device. The manual makes it very hard to understand what is the max res you can get without software interpolation.

Here are some quotes from the manual :

You can set the resolution for the scanned image file to any
value between 50 and 4800 dpi. If you are directing your
output to a printer, you should generally set the value to
approximately 1/3 the printing resolution. If you are printing
with an EPSON Stylus series printer, it is recommended that
you leave the resolution setting at its default value.

Note:
This value does not set the actual scanning resolution. The scanner
automatically selects the scanning resolution in accordance with the
Resolution setting, Media Size setting, and the specified scanning
area.

Effective pixels

1128 × 1700 pixels (1200 dpi per frame) for 35 mm film
752 × 1322 pixels (1200 dpi per frame) for cartridge film

Scanning resolution

Main scanning 1200 dpi
Sub scanning 2400 dpi

If I understand well, the max hardware scanning resolution is 1128 * 2 × 1700 * 2 pixels so 2256 * 3400. Am I right ? Is that what the subscanning at 2400dpi means ?

Not sure how to force subscanning in the TWAIN interface though.

I would have thought that just having Photoshop 4 running on an SE/30 would slow things down mightily, never mind scanning into it.

There is a reason DSP accelerator chips were developed (and bought at great expense on Nubus cards and the like) in the 68k era for this kind of work.

Starting is a bit slow, and it takes a huge amount of RAM (10 Mb) but once started it runs well ! I tried to use old versions of Photoshop but they don't support multiple frame TWAIN scanning unfortunately.

 

[Burgertrench]

Thanks for that detailed answer !

Unfortunately I went through the manual, and also though the "TWAIN interface" but I don't think there's a way to directly scan to disk. Here are some screenshots (nothing to play with, weirdly I cannot even set the Scanning Quality to "Fine") :

In the second screen grab there is a button labelled 'Destination' and a drop down menu showing 'Screen' - what are the other options there?

View attachment 81243View attachment 81241

That's very frustrating because it makes the process very long especially when you have 36 pictures to scan !

As you seem familiar with scanning equipment I'd like to ask you a question to make sure I fully understand the scanning resolution of this device. The manual makes it very hard to understand what is the max res you can get without software interpolation.

Here are some quotes from the manual :




View attachment 81244

View attachment 81245

If I understand well, the max hardware scanning resolution is 1128 * 2 × 1700 * 2 pixels so 2256 * 3400. Am I right ? Is that what the subscanning at 2400dpi means ?

I'm not familiar with subscanning, but it appears to be a way to increase scan resolution using two passes of the scan head, and your math would to be correct in this case.

Not sure how to force subscanning in the TWAIN interface though.

In the Agfa system I used, the scanner would operate automatically according to the resolution and quality settings selected in the TWAIN interface. The scan speed was in accordance with the selected resolution and quality. But your software and hardware may behave differently.

Starting is a bit slow, and it takes a huge amount of RAM (10 Mb) but once started it runs well ! I tried to use old versions of Photoshop but they don't support multiple frame TWAIN scanning unfortunately.

Have you been able to try GraphicConverter? If you can figure out how to scan direct to disk, the capabilities of the host program should be irrelevant.

 

[ronan]

In the second screen grab there is a button labelled 'Destination' and a drop down menu showing 'Screen' - what are the other options there?

Unfortunately there are only "Screen" and Printers in this list. I also thought I could add some kind of "file" destination but unfortunately no.

Have you been able to try GraphicConverter? If you can figure out how to scan direct to disk, the capabilities of the host program should be irrelevant.

I tried GC 3.7.2 but it had no TAWIN support. I then tried with 4.1 and it manages to scan a single picture (whereas PS 4 manages to scan 6 images in a row). And with GC 4.1 the process is the same as PS, I have to save image by hand. If I'm not mistaken GC >= 5 are for PPC only ?

Did you manage on your side to make GC scan directly to disk ?


I'm also wondering if there's a simple TWAIN C API I could use to make a litlle C app to do what I want

 

[Burgertrench]

Unfortunately there are only "Screen" and Printers in this list. I also thought I could add some kind of "file" destination but unfortunately no.

That's a shame, that would be the most logical place for a save setting.

I tried GC 3.7.2 but it had no TAWIN support. I then tried with 4.1 and it manages to scan a single picture (whereas PS 4 manages to scan 6 images in a row). And with GC 4.1 the process is the same as PS, I have to save image by hand. If I'm not mistaken GC >= 5 are for PPC only ?

I can't speak for specific versions, Macintosh Garden should list the supported systems.

Did you manage on your side to make GC scan directly to disk ?

I don't recall much other than the fact GC had Twain support. It seems the option to save to disk is reliant entirely on the Twain driver having this function, not the host application. I don't have a scanner so am unable to test at my end, this is all from memory
Perhaps there is another app which is designed for batch scanning, or a newer driver for your scanner?

I am also wondering if there's a simple TWAIN C API I could use to make a litlle C app to do what I want

This is above my pay grade, but I think you would be right. In MacOS X there is a standalone app like this called Image Capture which is hosts Twain scanners and a few other things.

This is a lot of effort to scan using a very old machine when it would be quite easy with a newer machine, but I can relate to wanting to beat this challenge.

 

[ronan]

Thanks for your help !

Yes I guess you are right, the direct disk save must rely on the TWAIN driver/app. This scanner is not very popular so there is limited resource on the internet but I'll take another dive ! (Fun fact, the system 7 driver is still available on Epson official website)

I'm having a look at the Macintosh C Programming books by Dave Mark but they don't mention any scanner/TWAIN API. Again I'm going for a new internet dive to find more info.

This is a lot of effort to scan using a very old machine when it would be quite easy with a newer machine, but I can relate to wanting to beat this challenge.

Exactly
But it's part of the fun ! And I'm not willing to pay more than 300 euros-ish for a modern film scanner so I'll stick with that retro scanning process


Thanks again for your help, it was very interesting !

 

[Burgertrench]

Thanks for your help !

Yes I guess you are right, the direct disk save must rely on the TWAIN driver/app. This scanner is not very popular so there is limited resource on the internet but I'll take another dive ! (Fun fact, the system 7 driver is still available on Epson official website)

I'm having a look at the Macintosh C Programming books by Dave Mark but they don't mention any scanner/TWAIN API. Again I'm going for a new internet dive to find more info.



Exactly
But it's part of the fun ! And I'm not willing to pay more than 300 euros-ish for a modern film scanner so I'll stick with that retro scanning process


Thanks again for your help, it was very interesting !

No worries at all, I hope you nail it. I should have kept the old Agfa scanner, it was a very high end unit back in the day, and I'm sure like many it was scrapped long ago. As one last thing, I wonder if there is a generic twain scanner driver which might work with this scanner, and provide the functions you're after?

 

[ronan]

As one last thing, I wonder if there is a generic twain scanner driver which might work with this scanner, and provide the functions you're after?

I need to have a look. I'm not really confident as it's a film scanner it needs to scan six images in a row. But I'm going to have a look still !

Also the SCSI protocol is freely available in the service manual ! (I don't know if this was common at the time)

 

[NJRoadfan]

VueScan supports all these old scanners out of the box on modern machines. Assuming you have a SCSI interface to plug them into of course.

 

[ronan]

Unfortunately I don't have a modern machine with SCSI ! And I wanted a retro mac to be part of the scanning process

 

[halkyardo]

Just depends on what you consider to be retro! My 35mm-scanning workflow runs on a Quicksilver G4 with a SCSI card connected to a Nikon LS-2000 . Works great, either with Nikon's own software on Mac OS 9, or VueScan on 10.4.

There are older versions of VueScan floating around that will work on the Classic Mac OS, though I'm not sure how far back they go.

 

[ronan]

Just depends on what you consider to be retro!

Sorry ! I did not mean than PPC macs are not retro ! It's just that I don't have one !

I thought that the first ViewScan versions were for PPC, I'm going to have a look ! Thanks !