Few questions about StuffIt, MacBinary and file transfers.

Maku

Member
I'm extremely new to the whole "classic" Mac thing so please bear with me if I'm asking dumb questions, but...

I got a Macintosh Plus which I have now upgraded (among other mods) with internal BlueSCSI (with WiFi!) - I thought this is all I will ever need to easily time travel transfer files between the Macintosh Plus and my more modern computers.

I started with a BlueSCSI bootstrap image, but my eventual goal was to move to a fresh copy of System 7.0.1 with only the essential tools (which in the case of my ignorance basically meant working TCP/IP stack and an FTP client). My hope was that with such a minimal system I could slowly build the collection of apps and games of my choosing.

Unfortunately it seems I'm completely missing how transferring files to those old machines is supposed to be done. There's a plethora of different file formats (`sit`, `smi`, `bin` and `hqx`) and often the actual software is double packed. Almost none of the apps I downloaded with FTP seem to open - sometimes the FTP client even refuses to download the file complaining about "Unknown Binary Mode" (I'm Using Fetch 2.1.2). I somehow managed to get StuffIt Expander installed (and that required Disk Copy first for some reason), but I still can't open many of the `sit` files I have found online.

So far the best solution to copy things over seems to be to use Infinite Mac to generate a disk image (as the image they're using seems to contain the necessary bits for opening whatever I throw at it) and then copy it over onto my BlueSCSI SD Card, but that is very cumbersome.

So could anyone walk me through what am I doing wrong? I explicitly set out on this adventure with the goal of not using any "pre-built" images that come with hundreds of apps, because I want to understand how this system works and it's hard to do that if I just get everything pre-configured.

My eventual goal is to actually create software for this computer myself, so I really need a proper workflow for getting files (and binaries) to and from the machine quickly.
 

Mk.558

Well-known member
Fetch 2.1.2 is a smart and good program. It should be able to automatically identify BinHex and MacBinary II files and unpack them. It even has a widget for setting the type/creator as it's imported. There's not specifically wrong with using Fetch and FTP -- I would advise it over NFS, which I'm fighting at the moment.

It's a bit out of date and a major revamp is in the works, but the link in my signature has a section specifically about Data Encoding Techniques.

Usually, most archives are either Stuffit 4, Stuffit 5.5, Stuffit 6.0 or sometimes StuffitX. Stuffit 4 cannot open later versions, so that is sometimes a problem. You could try using a bridge box or an emulator like Sheepshaver to run Mac OS 9, which can then perform all the unpacking and repacking for you if you want. My favorite is CompactPro for compression.

I'm curious what set up you have to exchange files. FTP is going to be flexible and capable, but slow on a Plus.
 

LaPorta

Well-known member
A lot of this isn’t your fault. People compress software with modern tools on more modern machines, making it unusable on the Plus (or other machine running System 7, for that matter).

First, at least my suggestion: don’t run System 7 on a Plus. It’s incredibly slow vs. System 6.0.8, and isn’t going to give you any real benefit in your case.

Second, It sounds like you are using a PC as your main machine, so that makes this more difficult in my opinion. Is the Plus the only Mac that you have? If you want to make the whole BlueSCSI thing less cumbersome, some have taken to using SD card extenders (wires that will fit in an SD slot on one end and will take the SD card in the other) and feed it through the lock slot in the back of the Plus. Then you can easily get at the SD card to put in your PC and transfer. Alternatively, you can get one of the external BlueSCSIs and keep it attached to the rear SCSI jack (though on a Plus it will need extra power).

If you are using FTP, this is totally fine IF you have two things: one, an archive that you know was created by old StuffIt (possibly generated by a forum member) and BinHex on the Plus to unpackaged those .hqx files. The problem you’ll suffer from is that if you unpackaged the files on your PC, the resource fork of the file will disappear, so even if you, say, opened the StuffIt archive on your PC and then made the resulting files into binaries or binhex, the type/creator codes and resource forks of the files would be gone, making it impossible to use them on the Plus. If you have any sort of modern Mac that isn’t an issue, as the resource fork won’t disappear…but it sounds like you don’t.

I hope this was at least a little bit helpful.
 

Maku

Member
I'm curious what set up you have to exchange files. FTP is going to be flexible and capable, but slow on a Plus.
I'm using QuickFTP app on my modern Mac Studio running Seqoia.

It's a bit out of date and a major revamp is in the works, but the link in my signature has a section specifically about Data Encoding Techniques.
Thanks, will give it a read.

First, at least my suggestion: don’t run System 7 on a Plus. It’s incredibly slow vs. System 6.0.8, and isn’t going to give you any real benefit in your case.
I have a clean System 6 install too, it is indeed much snappier.

If you have any sort of modern Mac that isn’t an issue, as the resource fork won’t disappear…but it sounds like you don’t.
I do! And I still can't easily share files between the two.

For example - I just downloaded Disk Copy 4.2 `sit` file to my modern Mac from here:

After that, I expose it with QuickFTP and use Fetch 2.1.2 on the Mac Plus to download it. Unfortunately, that doesn't work as Fetch 2.1.2 complains with the following error:

Screenshot 2024-08-18 at 1.36.21 PM.png

I'm truly at loss here, none of this makes sense and I'm a software engineer...


I'm currently looking at just exposing a share with AppleTalk (through netatalk) that my modern Mac, the emulated Mac in Basilisk II and my Mac Plus can access. That would be the dream solution, but of course Mac Plus doesn't let me specify the IP address of my share server and once again I have no idea why.
 

LaPorta

Well-known member
IP addressed didn’t become a thing (at least, TCP/IP addresses) until Open Transport was released…and that doesn’t work on a Mac Plus. Only MacIP was supported, and I regrettably don’t know anything about that. You couldn’t just open IP addresses via the Chooser till some version of Mac OS 8 or 9, if memory serves.

If you are going the Netatalk route, if it’s set up properly, my understanding is the file server should show up in AppleShare in the chooser.

Now that I think of it…I assume you are using the DaynaPort SCSI Ethernet WiFi emulation thingy in the BlueSCSI to connect to your network? If so, the netatalk server should show up in the Chooser….provided your wireless router properly passes AppleTalk packets.

I’m going to ask @cheesestraws to get in on this, as he certainly is someone who understands this kind of stuff.
 

Mk.558

Well-known member
Switch Fetch to Binary mode, at the bottom of the main window. Unless you're working with BinHex files or pure ASCII text files, you're normally using Binary mode. There could be also an issue with Passive or Active mode FTP.

If you're using the WiFi mode on your BlueSCSI, many people have reported issues with it, and it's still in experimental stage. I don't use it on mine.

If you want to use AppleTalk with Basilisk II, that's a tough road. Most of the builds that use AppleTalk are build 142, which is really old. Windows hosts will need a TAP bridge, which I've had issues getting the the openVPN TAP driver working properly, but if you're real good with Linux you might be able to get it to work. Mini vMac does support LocalTalk out but to my knowledge that beta version only works on OS X. The most sane way to network in the modern age is to either use a good bridge box that can talk both ways, or to use a Netatalk file server. Netatalk will work all the way down to S3.3/F5.4 all the way up to the last version of macOS that has (had) an AFP client, as far as I know it's still included.

Your screen requires adjustment. They make tools for this, or you can make your own with a shaved pair of chopsticks and a mirror. The trim pots should be on the analog board/PSU board of the Plus, simply remove the cover and they'll be exposed. Only minor adjustments are usually necessary.

IP addresses for AppleTalk only works with AFP2.2 and above which can tunnel AFP inside TCP packets. The ability to call up a server via IP address in the Chooser a feature of OpenTransport and AppleShare Client 3.7. I believe the exact versions are OT 1.2 (came out with Mac OS 8.0) and 3.7.something. 3.7.4 definitely has it but I've never tested 3.7.2. The lowest version of System Software that can handle AFP over TCP normally is 7.1.

For AppleTalk to work over the BlueSCSI WiFi interface, a compatible router / WAP would have be sourced, and then I'm not aware of the BlueSCSI WiFi working correctly with AppleTalk traffic over WiFi because I don't have a WAP that supports AppleTalk properly.

MacIP is a protocol for tunneling TCP inside AppleTalk packets, usually over serial ports, i.e. FTP or HTTP over a compatible gateway / router which feeds AppleTalk packets to client machines over (usually) LocalTalk.
 

Maku

Member
Your screen requires adjustment. They make tools for this, or you can make your own with a shaved pair of chopsticks and a mirror. The trim pots should be on the analog board/PSU board of the Plus, simply remove the cover and they'll be exposed. Only minor adjustments are usually necessary.
You mean to make it smaller? This is the best I could make it to fill the screen, there's still a horizontal shift to the left that I'm unsure how to fix.
 

Maku

Member
Switch Fetch to Binary mode, at the bottom of the main window. Unless you're working with BinHex files or pure ASCII text files, you're normally using Binary mode. There could be also an issue with Passive or Active mode FTP.
That does not help at a all.
 

Mk.558

Well-known member
Assuming you're running an SCSI Ethernet bridge or something like pseudo-PPP dialup, which have been known to work reliably with TCP, then the only thing I can point the finger as is the FTP server. Fetch 2.1.2 has been very reliable for me and generally as long as I'm not having issues with something (Farallon EtherWave Mac/PB adapter comes to mind) I've never really had an issue with it.

Have you tried any other FTP servers? Switch all file transfers to BinHex only?
 

LaPorta

Well-known member
View attachment IMG_5616.jpeg

Though these are from the Pina Mac SE book, the measurements and procedure are the same for the Plus. It is just better illustrated in this book than the one for the original Macs. You don’t want the video filling the screen.

Since you have a Mac Studio, I’d get SheepShaver working and a copy of StuffIt 1.5.1 running inside of Mac OS 8 or 9 or whatever you run on sheepshaver. Whatever you download, unstuff on your Mac Studio. Copy the resulting files into sheeosgaver and use StuffIt 1.5.1 to make an archive (which the plus could open). That’s one way to do it via the SD card method.

I know a lot of this is chicken-and-egg like.
 

Mk.558

Well-known member
I've used Fetch 2.1.2 with everything from NetPresenz all the way up to built-in FTP servers in Windows 7 and OS X, to remote FTP servers wherein I have no idea what they're using. To find out if you were on to something, which I have reason to believe you are, I downloaded FileZilla Server. The only thing I did was turn on Passive mode on the server, which I'm not sure if that mattered or not. I couldn't get the same program you have because my Mac mini 6,2 doesn't have an Apple account assigned to it.

Screen Shot 2024-08-18 at 7.10.00 PM.png

10.14 Mojave running. Program is a little "eh" on the UI but it's standard fare these days. Next up is Fetch 2.1.2 on System 7.1 (not a factor) with Vicom Internet Gateway in the background (not a factor either).

Picture 1A.png
Picture 2A.png

It downloaded MacBinary II and BinHex 4.0 just fine. The images were then ftp uploaded to the Mac mini G4 for processing, since last I checked (could be wrong) the Mac mini 6,2 doesn't import and export MacPaint images properly, and I don't recall having a way to unpack the MacBinary II encoding on that box. Hate to be that guy who says "It works for me" (a favorite among the *NIX community) but I'm pretty sure Fetch isn't the problem. The problem lies in your TCP connection (if the WiFi mode is being used) or the FTP server. Given how macOS is pretty tight on security and is becoming pretty distant from the ideas of its earlier versions, it could be a factor, but I doubt it.
 

sstaylor

Well-known member
All this was a lot easier back in the day when we all just exchanged floppy disks and lots of folks had lots of various macs that could readily talk to the Plus. All of that is different now; newer systems just don't exchange information the same way, and even the basic assumptions of how a system ought to run and talk with other machines is quite different.
Basically, I'm just saying don't give up. Once you get over the hump it'll all make sense. More sense, at least.
 

LaPorta

Well-known member
All this was a lot easier back in the day when we all just exchanged floppy disks and lots of folks had lots of various macs that could readily talk to the Plus. All of that is different now; newer systems just don't exchange information the same way, and even the basic assumptions of how a system ought to run and talk with other machines is quite different.
Basically, I'm just saying don't give up. Once you get over the hump it'll all make sense. More sense, at least.
To add to that…I’m always willing to make people a floppy with period StuffIt, binhex, etc, and mail it.
 
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