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The slow process of coaxing my Lisa (2/10) back to life
- Thread starter Berenod
- Start date
stepleton
Well-known member
If you have a computer with a serial port, then the BLU utility makes it not so difficult to take a snapshot of the drive.
OK, so decided to not mess with de widget too much and leave the current OS on there.
Question, what storage alternatives are there to install and run LisaOS from?
I do have the "Parallel" card for the Lisa, I kinda recall reading somewhere of some SD/Flashcard solution working of the parallel card?
I do want to acquire a FloppyEMU in the near future, but it is such a PITA to buy stuff from the states, have Hybrid from Androda on the way, it's already stuck several weeks in Belgian Customs, doesn't want to move :-(
Question, what storage alternatives are there to install and run LisaOS from?
I do have the "Parallel" card for the Lisa, I kinda recall reading somewhere of some SD/Flashcard solution working of the parallel card?
I do want to acquire a FloppyEMU in the near future, but it is such a PITA to buy stuff from the states, have Hybrid from Androda on the way, it's already stuck several weeks in Belgian Customs, doesn't want to move :-(
mg.man
Well-known member
How do you feel about building something? If you're up for it, I've built one of these for my Lisa :
It's not as slick as some of the alternatives - doesn't support @stepleton's OS switcher, but it's nice that it can be powered from the Lisa Widget connector. I'm just waiting on a local metal fab to make me a "shelf" to put in the card cage and button mine back up.
Here's a pic of my 'board nearly finished :
...and running (waiting for the shelf) :
stepleton
Well-known member
IDEfile is an excellent and dependable option. I've used mine now for about a decade.
The selector program that @mg.man mentions was written for a hard drive emulator that I made. You can build it from scratch based on the resources at that link --- you'll probably want to make this version by ArcaneByte which is better for the 2/10, or you might be able to buy one that's already made. (Note: I get no cut of ArcaneByte sales.)
(It's not too hard to hack a connector that can go from the Widget hard drive power connector to Micro USB.)
There is another selector-compatible device that's based on an Arduino, but it won't work in a 2/10.
There's this experimental one based on a Raspberry Pi Pico. I don't know whether it works in a 2/10; I doubt it supports the selector.
You will find still other emulators out there if you keep searching with enough persistence.
Finally, if you want good commercial support, get an X/ProFile. This isn't selector-compatible either. I don't have any experience with it, but a lot of people use it, and I've never heard of anyone having trouble.
The selector program that @mg.man mentions was written for a hard drive emulator that I made. You can build it from scratch based on the resources at that link --- you'll probably want to make this version by ArcaneByte which is better for the 2/10, or you might be able to buy one that's already made. (Note: I get no cut of ArcaneByte sales.)
(It's not too hard to hack a connector that can go from the Widget hard drive power connector to Micro USB.)
There is another selector-compatible device that's based on an Arduino, but it won't work in a 2/10.
There's this experimental one based on a Raspberry Pi Pico. I don't know whether it works in a 2/10; I doubt it supports the selector.
You will find still other emulators out there if you keep searching with enough persistence.
Finally, if you want good commercial support, get an X/ProFile. This isn't selector-compatible either. I don't have any experience with it, but a lot of people use it, and I've never heard of anyone having trouble.
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mg.man
Well-known member
Me thinks this is a rite of passage every new Lisa owner must go through...Dust to dust, ashes to ashes
No big mistery the keyboard wasn't working!
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cheesestraws
Well-known member
Yup, had to do both of my keyboards. Grateful that the replacement foam pads are available pre-made these days.
Not just Apple!
Keyboards with those foam pads were used by several brands, Compaq Portable, IBM PCjr, some Wang machines and many more.
CC_333
Well-known member
Huh, interesting.
Why did they use it? Are keyboards with foam pads (that aren't crumbled, of course) somehow better than an equivalent mechanical one? I don't think the rubber dome membrane kind were invented back then, were they? Is this foam stuff one of the predecessors to that, maybe?
c
Why did they use it? Are keyboards with foam pads (that aren't crumbled, of course) somehow better than an equivalent mechanical one? I don't think the rubber dome membrane kind were invented back then, were they? Is this foam stuff one of the predecessors to that, maybe?
c
Might be just early technology, the keyboard brands using those foam pads (BTC, keytronic) moved over to the rubber dome type keyboard.
The mechanical ones likey were a fair bit more expensive!
cheesestraws
Well-known member
It's simple and robust, and works well for how simple it is. Until the foam disintegrates, but it's easy to forget how far beyond their rated lives we are using these things.
CC_333
Well-known member
I suppose so. But the Lisa was such an expensive, high end computer, the cost of a mechanical keyboard would've been insignificant.
Even the Mac, which was meant to be a more affordable alternative, used a mechanical keyboard!
There must've been more to it than cost. Feel, perhaps?
I'd imagine that the Lisa keyboard is significantly quieter and softer than an equivalent mechanical one, yes?
c
Even the Mac, which was meant to be a more affordable alternative, used a mechanical keyboard!
There must've been more to it than cost. Feel, perhaps?
I'd imagine that the Lisa keyboard is significantly quieter and softer than an equivalent mechanical one, yes?
c
I'll let you know when mine is restored!
But truth be told, there are several keyboard technologies or production runs which turned out not so good regarding longevity.
I'm also restoring a TRS80-model III, uses a keyboard with the rubber domes, and also is a disaster with about a third of the keys not working at all, and lots of the others suffering from keyboard bounce (multiple strokes registerd when only hitting it once, even with the "software" filter they programmed into basic).
And a disaster to repair as every bad switch has to be desoldered and replaced (have a broken donor machine with enough working keys to get the other one complete).
Apple also had the "film" keyboards as used in the Duo series laptop's, another total disaster!
At least the restoration of the Lisa keyboard is fairly easy, with getting the protective layer sepparated from the double sided tape of each little foam pad being the most annoying part!
True that, bet no engineer ever said "let's make sure that they'll still be working perfectly in 40 odd years time"
stepleton
Well-known member
Lots of computers used these foam-and-foil capacitive keyboards, which were mostly made by a company called Key Tronic of Spokane, WA. Why Apple selected this option instead of others I can't say --- they probably satisfied some price/quality tradeoff --- but here are some other users I can think of off the top of my head:
- Franklin (in the ACE, as mentioned)
- ICL/Three Rivers Computer (in PERQ 2 keyboards)
- Whitechapel Computer Works (MG-1)
- Human Data Systems (in the Concept terminal series)
- Processor Technologies (in the SOL-20)
There were many others. Several are listed on the TexElec website. I'm a bit embarrassed that I forgot about the Compaq Portable, another famous use case.
Guess what: Key Tronic is still around! https://www.keytronic.com/
- Franklin (in the ACE, as mentioned)
- ICL/Three Rivers Computer (in PERQ 2 keyboards)
- Whitechapel Computer Works (MG-1)
- Human Data Systems (in the Concept terminal series)
- Processor Technologies (in the SOL-20)
There were many others. Several are listed on the TexElec website. I'm a bit embarrassed that I forgot about the Compaq Portable, another famous use case.
Guess what: Key Tronic is still around! https://www.keytronic.com/
Next one to attack is the floppy drive, see if we can get that one cleaned and greased up.
Then I'm at the point of a very tourough cleaning reassembly, getting the display squared out a bit better, replave the lightbulb in the softpower switch, bunch of smaller things really.
Next step after that will be to see if I can snapshot the OS as it sits now on the widget.
Gonna have to read up on the "BLU utility" and see where we get.
Then I'm at the point of a very tourough cleaning reassembly, getting the display squared out a bit better, replave the lightbulb in the softpower switch, bunch of smaller things really.
Next step after that will be to see if I can snapshot the OS as it sits now on the widget.
Gonna have to read up on the "BLU utility" and see where we get.
