mactjaap
Well-known member
I’m with you with the BLU utility!
I would also like to backup my drives. What I’m missing is instructions how to do this with a Raspberry Pi to backup to.
If somebody knows this please let me know.
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Updated 2023-07-12: Hello, Guest! Welcome back, and be sure to check out this follow-up post about our outage a week or so ago.
The slow process of coaxing my Lisa (2/10) back to life
- Thread starter Berenod
- Start date
I would also like to backup my drives. What I’m missing is instructions how to do this with a Raspberry Pi to backup to.
If somebody knows this please let me know.
stepleton
Well-known member
I've never heard of anyone selecting a Raspberry Pi in particular as a place to backup files to, but there's no reason you couldn't use one for that.
What BLU wants to talk to is another computer with a serial port, so if you want to backup to a Pi, you'll need to find either a USB to serial adapter or use the serial UART available on some of its GPIO pins (which requires a different kind of adapter to change the GPIO voltage levels to RS-232).
If you can get your hands on a USB to serial adapter, I'd just use that with an ordinary desktop or laptop instead of with a Pi.
No matter what, you'll need a terminal program that supports xmodem. For Linux, minicom is a common choice. You'll also need a cable that connects the DB-25 socket connector on a Lisa to whatever connector you find on the other end, probably a DE-9 plug.
What BLU wants to talk to is another computer with a serial port, so if you want to backup to a Pi, you'll need to find either a USB to serial adapter or use the serial UART available on some of its GPIO pins (which requires a different kind of adapter to change the GPIO voltage levels to RS-232).
If you can get your hands on a USB to serial adapter, I'd just use that with an ordinary desktop or laptop instead of with a Pi.
No matter what, you'll need a terminal program that supports xmodem. For Linux, minicom is a common choice. You'll also need a cable that connects the DB-25 socket connector on a Lisa to whatever connector you find on the other end, probably a DE-9 plug.
mactjaap
Well-known member
Thanks for the update.
I choose a Rpi because I use it as a small NAS for backup. Handy devices.
I’m looking for the details what to do. I have the hardware in place. Sending data to ttyUSB0 will give output on my Macintosh XL MacTerminal session.
Minicom I’m familiar with, only never used it as x modem. So would be helped what to do if I have started minicom. Or is there a better, simpeler way?
stepleton
Well-known member
It sounds like you're most of the way there.
The BLU manual tells you how to transfer a hard drive image to a different computer over the serial port. "Read from disk to serial port" is in the "Hard Disk Functions" menu.
You may want to verify that BLU and your Pi can speak to each other first. Make use of "Terminal Test" under "Configure serial port" under "Miscellaneous functions". Remember to only type CAPITAL LETTERS from the Pi side or else BLU will beep at you.
It sounds like it would be useful to get used to transferring files with Minicom. There's a lot of resource online for how to do that, but basically after you've started the transfer on the BLU side, then go to your Pi, type Ctrl-a,r, and select Xmodem. Say the filename you want, then wait. The transfer may have a few false starts before it begins to work, but be patient and it will eventually begin working (in my experience).
The BLU manual tells you how to transfer a hard drive image to a different computer over the serial port. "Read from disk to serial port" is in the "Hard Disk Functions" menu.
You may want to verify that BLU and your Pi can speak to each other first. Make use of "Terminal Test" under "Configure serial port" under "Miscellaneous functions". Remember to only type CAPITAL LETTERS from the Pi side or else BLU will beep at you.
It sounds like it would be useful to get used to transferring files with Minicom. There's a lot of resource online for how to do that, but basically after you've started the transfer on the BLU side, then go to your Pi, type Ctrl-a,r, and select Xmodem. Say the filename you want, then wait. The transfer may have a few false starts before it begins to work, but be patient and it will eventually begin working (in my experience).
mactjaap
Well-known member
Thanks for your tutorial! I think I will manage! Will report back.
So, next step was getting the floppydrive back to life.
As to be expected, all the grease from the metal moving parts was completely gummed up, even the grease on the plastic gears from the eject motor was totally hardened out.
Took apart what needed to be taken apart to get to the moving parts, got all the old grease out as best as I could.
Cleaned the head with a bit of IPA on an cotton bud.
Then, time to test. First time powered up, the stepper motor for the head pushed the head assembly all the way out and kept turning, with a tack-tack-tack noise.
In doubt what the issue was, the only thing I could imagine was the optic eye thinking the drive assembly was at the other end.
So cleaned the space between the led and the pick up with some paper towel and IPA around a thin piece of cardboard...
Not sure that actually was the cause, but next try the motor did not go haywire, and the Lisa booted up normally.
Putting a floppy in, the Lisa asked to initialize the disk, which it ended up doing correctly and asking me to name the floppy.
Moved some files back and forth, looks like it works just fine!
The test setup:
Viedo of the moving head assembly while initializing, as it is only single sided, you see only the part without head, but with a bit of felt pushing the floppy against the head on the other side.
Guess I now know why a double sided floppy used in a single sided drive stops being useable in a double sided 800k drive after a while, guess the felt does a number on the magnetic layer on that side of the floppy!
View attachment VID20230506155538.mp4
As to be expected, all the grease from the metal moving parts was completely gummed up, even the grease on the plastic gears from the eject motor was totally hardened out.
Took apart what needed to be taken apart to get to the moving parts, got all the old grease out as best as I could.
Cleaned the head with a bit of IPA on an cotton bud.
Then, time to test. First time powered up, the stepper motor for the head pushed the head assembly all the way out and kept turning, with a tack-tack-tack noise.
In doubt what the issue was, the only thing I could imagine was the optic eye thinking the drive assembly was at the other end.
So cleaned the space between the led and the pick up with some paper towel and IPA around a thin piece of cardboard...
Not sure that actually was the cause, but next try the motor did not go haywire, and the Lisa booted up normally.
Putting a floppy in, the Lisa asked to initialize the disk, which it ended up doing correctly and asking me to name the floppy.
Moved some files back and forth, looks like it works just fine!
The test setup:
Viedo of the moving head assembly while initializing, as it is only single sided, you see only the part without head, but with a bit of felt pushing the floppy against the head on the other side.
Guess I now know why a double sided floppy used in a single sided drive stops being useable in a double sided 800k drive after a while, guess the felt does a number on the magnetic layer on that side of the floppy!
View attachment VID20230506155538.mp4
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Now waiting on my floppy EMU, should arrive early next week...
And get BLU running so I can make a snapshot of the rather odd OS version on the Widget.
Then, get the original Lisa OS on there, so I get the machine as close as possible to where GUI computing, as we still use today, got its start (handily skipping the Xerox story
)!
This has been a hugely succesfull project, I've been lucky on so many parts, like a videoboard popping up an Ebay just when I was looking for one, advertised as "untested", and it ended up being totally NOS (and obviously working).
Then the Widget comming to life without much problems, only issue being the brake solenoid being stuck and not releasing when the drive got up to speed...
And now the floppy drive being fully functional after some TLC...
Only slightly less enjoyable part was getting the keyboard re-"foampadded"
And get BLU running so I can make a snapshot of the rather odd OS version on the Widget.
Then, get the original Lisa OS on there, so I get the machine as close as possible to where GUI computing, as we still use today, got its start (handily skipping the Xerox story
)!This has been a hugely succesfull project, I've been lucky on so many parts, like a videoboard popping up an Ebay just when I was looking for one, advertised as "untested", and it ended up being totally NOS (and obviously working).
Then the Widget comming to life without much problems, only issue being the brake solenoid being stuck and not releasing when the drive got up to speed...
And now the floppy drive being fully functional after some TLC...
Only slightly less enjoyable part was getting the keyboard re-"foampadded"
stepleton
Well-known member
Good progress! You don't necessarily need to wait for your Floppy Emu to run BLU. See "APPENDIX A Bootstrapping" in the BLU manual --- you can load it over a serial cable and run it today if you want...
Could if I want
I aim to not try to accomplish too much in one day!
When I have a "win", my day is good.
Especially on the Lisa, I try to go one step at a time, getting to anxious trying to get multiple wins, one might get tired/sloppy and mess something up, and with the Lisa it's not like you can pop round the corner for spare/replacement parts
Not too long ago I got sloppy that way when working on a SE, and dropped a screw on the logic board while powered up (I know, shortcuts seldom gain you time).
Messed up the board, but as I have a few of those out of less desirable machines, not too big of a loss.
Would hit myself in the nuts pulling a stunt like that on the Lisa though!
cheesestraws
Well-known member
Yeah, taking it at a relaxed and calm speed is the best way to go . Nicely done, this is looking really nice.
. Nicely done, this is looking really nice.
stepleton
Well-known member
one might get tired/sloppy and mess something up, and with the Lisa it's not like you can pop round the corner for spare/replacement parts
As you wish, and it's a wise philosophy. This said, bootstrapping BLU is not really risky. In fact, if you unplug your Widget --- which would prevent you from accidentally misusing BLU to overwrite the data it contains --- then I don't think it can do any damage to your Lisa whatsoever, unless you somehow plug the other end of your serial cable into the mains.
(Note: Do not plug serial cables into the mains.)
More seriously: it's not obvious that bootstrapping BLU with no hard disks attached and no floppy disk in the drive is harmless, but for anyone following along or reading this thread from the archives: it's harmless, unless there's something else about your Lisa, your serial cable, or the computer on the other end of the cable that's unusual.
Of course, there's no need to forge ahead if you don't feel like it!
