SCSI-Zip250_Project

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

This thread has its roots in my MDD Zip750 thread conquest posts.

NOT A RECOMMENDATION!I thought I'd made another major Zip conquest a while back. I picked up a pair of internal SCSI ZIP 250 drives, but they haven't worked out very well yet. :-/

I picked up a pair for $100 shipped with high hopes and the drives work fine up until the it's time to dismount/eject the disk. I've only tried them with iomega guest on a few different OS versions and once on a system with a driver install so far, so there's still some hope.

Pretty cool find nonetheless, might work out as a 250MB boot drive for compacts. Less power and heat than adapted SCA drives I would think. I haven't bothered to try it out yet, but they may fit underneath the FDD in a Compact. I'm pretty sure you'd need to do a nasty power switch shutdown method due to the dismounting problems, but it might work out. If someone wants to do some serious research on them for this purpose and for the driver issues, I'll gladly loan one out.

I'll reiterate, I'm not recommending these very cool drives . . . yet.

If we can iron out the driver issues, I'll give them a very high recommendation.

I was so excited about finding them that I let a few comrades know about it in PM even before they arrived. :approve:

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Well, I did give it a shot this morning and these things are a perfect fit placed underneath the FDD of a Mac Plus!











The discussion about Zip behavior characteristics has been covered in the conquests thread. This is a driver issue, at worst it's a hardware incompatibility with the Mac. Given another approach, as suggested by CC-333, there may be a workaround to use these as lower power, minimal heat producing 250MB boot drives in the Mac Plus.

Even better would be to use them as fully functional Zip250s in my ZipMacPLUS™ and Radius 81/110/Zip!

CC, why don't you post your suggestion in detail to kick things off.

 

[jruschme]

Is that some kind of SCSI<->ATAPI board under the Zip drive? Could it be eating the eject commands?

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

WOW!!! 8-o

Check out what these same sellers, very good guys BTW, have available now!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-RoHs-SCSI-IDE-Converter-Card-Assembly-NEW-03N4811-/370792471333

I haven't found any documentation, but I did find a possible lead for specifications of the adapters:

http://www.focustechnology.com/catalog/ibm/03n4811.html

led to this:

http://pic.dhe.ibm.com/infocenter/powersys/v3r1m5/index.jsp?topic=/iphad/f57x.htm

I'm bored . . . how much are those AZTEC thingies? }

 

[CC_333]

CC, why don't you post your suggestion in detail to kick things off.

OK, I'll see...
Compatibility between ZIP disks and some older Macs (notably the Mac Plus) is a bit inconsistent I've read, especially with newer drivers. An unfortunate problem, however, is that if any newer versions of the ZIP drivers which are known to be incompatible are installed on a computer and you put the ZIP disk in it, the disks old, compatible drivers will be invisibly overwritten, rendering the disk unusable on those machines with which it was compatible with previously.

A solution I came up with was to just eliminate the driver altogether and replace it with one which is known to be compatible across a wide range of machines. It just so happens that Apple's HD SC Setup drivers work perfectly for this task. It has to be the patched version, though, because it won't recognize the ZIP disk otherwise.

The fascinating part is that AHDSCS sees it as any other hard disk, and formats it accordingly. It's quick (relatively) and simple.

So now I can move the disk to any computer I wish, and I don't have to worry about the ZIP drivers ruining it (some drivers are still needed for the computer to use the drive, though). Another interesting side effect of this is that the Mac no longer sees it as a removable drive; it treats it as a fixed disk. This means that the Mac doesn't try to eject the disk when it shuts down.

I did this all with ZIP 100 disks, but it seems to work with ZIP 250's too.

Feel free to contact me if you need help.

c

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Is that some kind of SCSI<->ATAPI board under the Zip drive? Could it be eating the eject commands?

Yep, that's how these work, there was never a SCSI Zip 250 available. I was hoping the adapters would be generic, but the time I tried it, the adapter didn't work with a known good SCSI HDD.

It's not that it's eating the eject commands AFAIK, it's eating the dismount commands at a lower level. I missed your post because I was so excited about finding those IBM SCSI<->IDE units. I'm hoping they will be universal SCSI<->ATAPI adapter at an affordable price point.

 

[krye]

I thought compacts couldn''t write to the 250s? Only the 100s. Or was that an Iomega driver thing? Can these be used with something like Lido 7?

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

These are the only SCSI Zip250s I've ever herd tell of, so I wouldn't know. I don't know anything about Lido.

I checked the specs when I got some parallel versions of the Zip250 I got that were mistakenly listed as SCSI on eBay. IOMEGA never made a SCSI Zip 250, internal or external, just parallel and USB for external and IDE for internal. The info about Winstation's development of this OEM package jibes with that, the 250 came out when USB and IDE had pretty much replaced SCSI for anything mainstream, parallel they probably did to keep their larges installed base happy, especially the WinTel laptop users.

I haven't tried the drive in a compact other than for the critical physical compatibility test. I don't see why there should be a difference between a Zip 100 and an IOMEGA Zip250 if they'd made one. Has someone tried to get a parallel interfaced Zip250 to work with a parallel<->SCSI converter?

I've got a Creative Solutions Hurdler II parallel interface NuBus card. I should try that with the Parallel Zip250s, but drivers will likely be the problem there as well, at both ends, card driver and Zip driver at the OS level.

So far I tested it in a Q700 and the 81/110, IIRC. It was discouraging and I didn't bother taking notes, hence, the offer of a loaner. I'll probably send one to CC for more rigorous testing.

Hacking drivers isn't something for me and not really something for here, maybe over at the Mac68k Forums.

I think I'll post this over there as well when I get a chance.

 

[jruschme]

I checked the specs when I got some parallel versions of the Zip250 I got that were mistakenly listed as SCSI on eBay. IOMEGA never made a SCSI Zip 250, internal or external, just parallel and USB for external and IDE for internal.

They definately made a SCSI external 250. I had one until recently when I traded it to a comrade. (CC?)

The USB ones came in two flavors, the non-USB-powered ones that could also take a FireWire adapter and the (more common, at least on eBay) USB-powered ones.

Now, if you want obscure variants of the 250, try one for a Dell Latitude D-series laptop. The C-series are common as mud, but I'd never seen a D-series one until yesterday. (The OCD part of me wants one for completeness, but the logical part can't justify the price for something I'd hardly ever use.)

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

I'm glad for that bit on enlightenment. The D Series wouldn't be the ones I can use to replace the Zip100 behind my borked 1400 Zip Bezel would it? ;D

 

[CC_333]

They definately made a SCSI external 250. I had one until recently when I traded it to a comrade. (CC?)

Yep! That was me! It works perfectly, too.

I thought compacts couldn''t write to the 250s? Only the 100s. Or was that an Iomega driver thing? Can these be used with something like Lido 7?

1) They can write to 250s just fine.

2) I'm not sure, but certain versions of the Iomega drivers render a disk completely unusable on the early 68k Macs (one will get a sad Mac if such a disk is used at startup).

3) Yes, you can use pretty much whatever disk utility you like (but I think it has to be formatted with Apple's utility first so the computer sees it as non removable; otherwise, any ZIP aware utilities will probably treat it as a ZIP disk (Lido 7 is ZIP aware, I think), and non ZIP aware ones will probably complain and spit it out if you try doing anything.)

c

 

[jruschme]

The D Series wouldn't be the ones I can use to replace the Zip100 behind my borked 1400 Zip Bezel would it?

You should be able to use the mech from any laptop Zip module as I'm pretty sure they all use the same Iomega-made mech(s). Personally, I wouldn't go for the D-series module, in your case, as you should be able to find a C (Inspiron 4000/8000) one (like this) cheaper.

If you do get the D-series one, though, save me the rest of it.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Looks like somebody bought the one you linked . . . :

If that one works out I'll be needing them for the Wallstreet and Pismo as well. looks like the bezel might work out in a pinch too.



This interesting Zip/CD bezel & Chassis arrived today. Much more convenient than an Apple 5.25" drive for a certain frogdesign inspired ProtoMacHack! :approve:

 

[markyb86]

Now that's awesome! I thought it was a 3.5 & 5.25" floppy but holy sheet that's cool.

A real sleeper

 

[jruschme]

Looks like somebody bought the one you linked . . . :
If that one works out I'll be needing them for the Wallstreet and Pismo as well. looks like the bezel might work out in a pinch too.

I'd be shocked if it didn't work out. I used one just like it to upgrade my Pismo's Zip module to a 250. At the time, I was lucky; we were still at the old site and they tended to turn up in cabinets and drawers like so many bad pennies.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

I thought it was a 3.5 & 5.25" floppy but holy sheet that's cool.

Not till I get done modding the plastics, buttons, LEDs and sheet metal for it to be a Zip/CD unit.

You were right, ATM it's full of junk in there that terminates at a floppy connector.

 

[markyb86]

if the 5.25" portion of that needs to be recycled, let me know

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

I need the chassis to mount the slot loader and hold the bezel/buttons, but you're welcome to any of the guts that aren't attached to the eject button. Maybe more if it looks like I can do noodle out a better way. Very cool, it's kinda like the 1/4 height 5.25" drive in my Compaq Portalle II.

That laptop Zip drive might have found a home already.

 

[Bunsen]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-RoHs-SCSI-IDE-Converter-Card-Assembly-NEW-03N4811-/370792471333

I'm pretty dubious about that part, without further docs turning up. The front looks a lot like a PCMCIA/Cardbus slot with eject button, and that 4-row pin connector at the back is just weird. And I can't say as the price is that great, seeing as you can get one of artmix's SCSI-CFs for the same price.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

I thought those monsters were in the $125-$150 range, haven't paid 'em much mind. This one looks strange, couldn't find the docs, but I only spent about five minutes looking. It being an IBM part may be a help or a hindrance in that department, dunno. The seller is willing to dicker over the price for multiple units if they turn out to be usable. Personally, I like the UltraSCSI Drives, but the bridges still intrigue me.