SCSI to Ethernet Adapter on New Hardware

[Chopsticks]

so just a quick update,

I still have to recompile the firmware with the debug option to see what I get on the tx line but in the meantime I have tried a different sd-card, and I have also tried in creasing the disk cache to about 7mb but still no luck

I have a couple of the microchip ethernet IC's in the mail atm to see if maybe its an issue with that but if its not that then its either my actual lan/router causing the issue or its a firmware/driver issue...

just wondering if you can provide a precompiled firmware I can try just so I can try it out as a process of elimination. maybe add it to you GitHub repo? i doubt that is the issue but its worth a try incase there's something wrong with my build chain

 

[superjer2000]

Not very helpful but I have found Fetch to be very unstable. It freezes up on me regularly on my se/30 with a pds lan card and on other machines with actual Ethernet. 
 

Have  you tried deleting your AppleTalk preferences files?  Also can you connect to another AppleTalk server besides your A2server?  Ie another Mac (your se/30 Ethernet with AppleShare running over EtherTalk?)

 

[Chopsticks]

Not very helpful but I have found Fetch to be very unstable. It freezes up on me regularly on my se/30 with a pds lan card and on other machines with actual Ethernet. 
 

Have  you tried deleting your AppleTalk preferences files?  Also can you connect to another AppleTalk server besides your A2server?  Ie another Mac (your se/30 Ethernet with AppleShare running over EtherTalk?)

hmm well ive never had any issues with fetch v4.0.3 using my pds network card on both my se/30's and I can use both Appleshare volumes and fetch to copy over anything regardless of size so that rules out the se/30, the network stack (OT1.3), my lan setup, as well as my A2Server and my OS9 server.

 if I don't have the network cable plugged in it seems that I can open appletalk and select 'alternate ethernet' and exit and save. but without the ethernet cable connected I get a crash to macsbug when I try to restart or shutdown, also I then get a freeze during boot up at the MacOS screen.
another forum member sent me his firmware and I tried it out with no change so at least ive ruled out a compile issue.
 

right now that just leaves it being a hardware issue with the scuznet board or a problem with the driver for it?  any ideas or feedback is most welcome though!

 

[saybur]

The network cable is very interesting. Does that happen every time you try it? A crash immediately if the cable is connected, and a crash on restart/shutdown if the cable is disconnected?

One other thing: does the on-board LED start blinking a half-second on, half-second off thing at any point during operation? Particularly when the crash happens?

 

[Chopsticks]

it doesn't crash immediately, but if its connected before I boot the Mac it freezes at the MacOS screen before it starts loading extensions with about 1cm of the loading bar done

if I boot up the Mac right to the desktop and then plugin the ethernet cable then it doesn't freeze until maybe 30-60seconds later then everything locks up and I can't move the mouse but interestingly if I unplug the ethernet it comes good again but if I plug it in again it freezes and then if I unplug the ethernet yet again it remains frozen and I have to hard reset the Mac or If I click the interrupt button and enter macsbug and type es a couple times I often get a flashing 'SCSI communications lost' message and then I can go back to the desktop with the ethernet cable not plugged in

from what I can tell the led stops blinking completely when it freezes, otherwise I does it normal blinking during use

 

[cheesestraws]

This really does feel like it's the AppleTalk address handling logic that's crashing.  FWIW I had crashes at basically those exact times when I broke my own AppleTalk stack and it accidentally claimed every address on the network (whoops) and nobody else could get an address...

 

[saybur]

Whoa, unplugging the Ethernet cable unfreezes the mouse? That's really weird. The firmware ignores the link detection information in the PHY and never reports anything other than the link being present on the SCSI media sense command, so unplugging should have no effect on program flow at all, either in the Mac driver or the firmware. @cheesestraws may be on to something here: maybe this is a weird hardware/software interaction?

To be 100% sure that there isn't some outside influence, can you try this on a network that contains only two Macs, one with the scuznet and the other using standard onboard Ethernet (or whatever), running bare-bones vanilla MacOS? That should narrow the possible sources of problems, or at least remove network gremlins from the picture.

 

[Chopsticks]

This really does feel like it's the AppleTalk address handling logic that's crashing.  FWIW I had crashes at basically those exact times when I broke my own AppleTalk stack and it accidentally claimed every address on the network (whoops) and nobody else could get an address...

are we talking a hardware about or software problem here? l have 7.5.5 installed with open transport 1.3...

Whoa, unplugging the Ethernet cable unfreezes the mouse? That's really weird. The firmware ignores the link detection information in the PHY and never reports anything other than the link being present on the SCSI media sense command, so unplugging should have no effect on program flow at all, either in the Mac driver or the firmware. @cheesestraws may be on to something here: maybe this is a weird hardware/software interaction?

To be 100% sure that there isn't some outside influence, can you try this on a network that contains only two Macs, one with the scuznet and the other using standard onboard Ethernet (or whatever), running bare-bones vanilla MacOS? That should narrow the possible sources of problems, or at least remove network gremlins from the picture.

i'll try that out today and report back. fwiw i think those symptoms only occur when ethernet is preselected in the AppleTalk control panel. i'll have to double check but i dont recall having this issue if printer/modem port is selected but then i get random issues with fetch.

also i have none of these issues when i use a PDS ethernet adaptor

 

[superjer2000]

Hopefully you get this sorted. 

"I would love to solder a few more Scuznet adapters" - said no-one ever.   

I'm about 80% of the way through soldering my two Scuznets and it's probably the most challenging soldering project I've ever done and I've done a fair amount of SMD soldering.  After completing all ~70 of the microscopic resistors/caps I went back through and checked for continuity for each of them against somewhere else on the board.  I had one capacitor that wasn't fully soldered down on one end so I went back and fixed that but I wouldn't be surprised if a missed joint could cause unexpected issues and it would be easy to miss a joint.

All of that being said, soldering some components to a board is obviously nothing in comparison to the hardware design, protocol reverse engineering and software development that Saybur undertook to create (and then share) this device.  I can't think of many 68k projects that are as ambitious as this one and I am in awe that it exists.  Thanks Saybur!  I'm looking forward to getting these up and running.

 

[saybur]

"I would love to solder a few more Scuznet adapters" - said no-one ever.   

Yeah, I completely agree. This board was the first "big" project I tried with 0605 components, and oh man, they really push the limit for what I can do by hand. This is definitely something that would benefit from factory assembly, at least of the passive components, or reflowing in one of those sweet DIY ovens I keep seeing around the Internet.

All of that being said, soldering some components to a board is obviously nothing in comparison to the hardware design, protocol reverse engineering and software development that Saybur undertook to create (and then share) this device.  I can't think of many 68k projects that are as ambitious as this one and I am in awe that it exists.  Thanks Saybur!  I'm looking forward to getting these up and running.

Thanks for the kind words! I'm really glad this project has been interesting to people. I had always wanted an adapter like this and was not thrilled with how expensive they've gotten over the years. For your boards I'd love to hear how things go with the final assembly too.

 

[Chopsticks]

so tried a isolated network between the se/30 and a Mac mini using a old router and I was actually able to connect and mount the afp share most of the time but unfortunately it would still hang the system so for now ive put the scuznet on the back burner as I'm still waiting on my order of ethernet PHY chips to arrive from DigiKey. in the mean time I went a bit Frankenstein and soldered up a extra DIN socket onto my PDS slot network card and Im just running that with the graphics card connected on top

 

[superjer2000]

I finished building my Scuznets and am in the process of programming them. I have firmware loaded on the first board but I haven’t set any of the options yet as I wanted to at least make sure my programmer was going to work. 
 

What I did realize though is that I don’t have a db25 m/m cable as all of my external SCSI stuff is centronics 50. 
 

What is everyone using for a 25 pin m/m cable?  Does a standard straight through extension cable have enough shielding?

 

[Michael_b]

I finished building my Scuznets and am in the process of programming them. I have firmware loaded on the first board but I haven’t set any of the options yet as I wanted to at least make sure my programmer was going to work. 
 

What I did realize though is that I don’t have a db25 m/m cable as all of my external SCSI stuff is centronics 50. 
 

What is everyone using for a 25 pin m/m cable?  Does a standard straight through extension cable have enough shielding?

I've only tried mine with a DB25 SCSI cable that I think came from a SCSI Zip Drive.

Not an expert, but I doubt you'd hurt anything trying a non-SCSI DB25 cable. I do know that the 25-pin connector is not really SCSI compliant as-is, so adding a non-compliant cable into the mix might have a higher chance of not working. 

You could also just use a DB25 to CN50 adapter on both ends. Two of those would probably cost roughly the same as a DB25 SCSI cable. Unfortunately, SCSI cables on eBay are quite expensive.

 

[Daniël]

Not an expert, but I doubt you'd hurt anything trying a non-SCSI DB25 cable.

I wouldn't do this. Parallel DB25 cables tend to have the GND lines connected together, while having a different pinout from DB25 SCSI. It wouldn't work, and has the potential to do damage if voltages are sent where they shouldn't!

 

[superjer2000]

I would buzz out the lines to make sure they are straight through but as per the prior reply DB25 for SCSI is maybe already a bit suspect so I was looking for a recommendation on a half decent cable as these aren’t as readily available. There is a mono price cable on amazon that is 3ft which might be better but the reviews indicate somebody got a Centronics cable instead and the specs state “Cable may not match image or specifications on this page”. Yikes!!

For now I’m using 2 MM and 1 FF mini gender changer and it’s plugged right into the back of the Mac. 

 

[superjer2000]

ITS ALIVE!! 

@saybur - I owe big time!! (Let me know if you ever want a RaSCSI, I'll hook you up)

@landoGriffin What was the fix here?

 

[superjer2000]

I had issues with he first board I built but demented to make a second one using new parts and the networking works with the following issues noticed, though I can't be certain if its and issue with the boards firmware or with my lan setup at this time. perhaps some of you whom have one can check these if my issues are isolated or common:

1. large file transfers will randomly freeze the Mac while using Fetch 4.0.3

2. Appletalk via ethernet doesn't work, it freezes the Mac. I have A2Server on my network and while I can 'see' it on the Mac it freezes the system

I have another se/30 that has a network card in the PDS slot and I don't have either of the issues I pointed out above. both systems are rung MacOS 7.5.5, but ive tried 7.0.1 and 7.1

I also have the same issues if I use classic networking rather the Open Transport v1.3

also if anyone is trying to setup the SD-card I found that if I put a blank card in it and use a program called SCSI Director 4.0 then I can format it and make partitions directly on the Mac, might be worth adding that to the Github page instructions perhaps?

Interestingly enough the two boards I built are also freezing for me with AppleTalk,

I tried first on my SE/30s (one with PDS lan card and the other without) and then after on a Classic II.  All running 7.1. If network cable is unplugged systems boot. If plugged in and EtherTalk is active, freeze on boot.  If cable is plugged in and EtherTalk is not selected I can get to the desktop, but when I click EtherTalk and then go to the chooser, I can usually see my server before it Freezes and sometimes even connect but it freezes right after.  I tried the nuvotech and focus drivers.

My SD card isn’t working either. Patched drive setup/ HDSC setup won’t select that SCSI ID. LIDO sees it but gives me a bad scsi (phase) error.  SCSI Director allows me to select the drive but shows as not ready.  I haven’t tried to delete all the partitions on my cards (there is likely a FAT partition by default.  But I did throw in my SCSI2SD card as I figured that would work but it didn’t make a difference.

i haven’t had time to try to troubleshoot yet.  I am pretty sure on my soldering but you never know.  The card is recognized by the Nuvotech drivers and as noted the mass storage scsi Id shows up, it just isn’t allowing me to partition.  My Initial plans are to: Review solder joints on ICs and connect to the serial debugging interface and maybe recompiling just with mass storage and then just with Ethernet.

For those that have successfully built:

Did you use the 64 or 128 Atxmega?  I’m using the 64.

Has anybody else gotten AppleShare working with an SE30?  What OS?
I am using the newest Windows 10 version of Microchip studio.  For anyone that currently has a working board, can you please post your .elf firmware file and clarify what vintage it is?  (Ie before in-Mac sd card formatting was implemented and which MCU, 64 OR 128)

@Chopsticks You said it worked on your IIci?
 

Also, I’m running a Linux Netatalk server for reference.

Thanks!  I’m looking forward to solving this!

 

[Chopsticks]

Interestingly enough the two boards I built are also freezing for me with AppleTalk,

I tried first on my SE/30s (one with PDS lan card and the other without) and then after on a Classic II.  All running 7.1. If network cable is unplugged systems boot. If plugged in and EtherTalk is active, freeze on boot.  If cable is plugged in and EtherTalk is not selected I can get to the desktop, but when I click EtherTalk and then go to the chooser, I can usually see my server before it Freezes and sometimes even connect but it freezes right after.  I tried the nuvotech and focus drivers.

My SD card isn’t working either. Patched drive setup/ HDSC setup won’t select that SCSI ID. LIDO sees it but gives me a bad scsi (phase) error.  SCSI Director allows me to select the drive but shows as not ready.  I haven’t tried to delete all the partitions on my cards (there is likely a FAT partition by default.  But I did throw in my SCSI2SD card as I figured that would work but it didn’t make a difference.

i haven’t had time to try to troubleshoot yet.  I am pretty sure on my soldering but you never know.  The card is recognized by the Nuvotech drivers and as noted the mass storage scsi Id shows up, it just isn’t allowing me to partition.  My Initial plans are to: Review solder joints on ICs and connect to the serial debugging interface and maybe recompiling just with mass storage and then just with Ethernet.

For those that have successfully built:

Did you use the 64 or 128 Atxmega?  I’m using the 64.

Has anybody else gotten AppleShare working with an SE30?  What OS?
I am using the newest Windows 10 version of Microchip studio.  For anyone that currently has a working board, can you please post your .elf firmware file and clarify what vintage it is?  (Ie before in-Mac sd card formatting was implemented)

Thanks!  I’m looking forward to solving this!

this is smiler to the issues ive had, firstly do double check you solder connections and make sure all the flux is gone. as for the sdcard I formatted mine as MBR Fat32 in my modern computer then I reformatted it with scsi director 4 fwiw. what brand sd card are you using, might be worth trying another card just to rule that out.

like you ive trie both the Nuvotech and the focus drives and ive also tried both 64 and 128 atmegas (with compile target ic changed of course)

ive also tired a firmware that was send form another user with no change to my symptoms. 

I'd be curious to hear if you have any issues transferring say 100mb files using FTP to your se/30 or classic etc... I get random a freezes after transferring some data.

as you've probably read ive tried a different router between two systems and it didn't help and  im waiting on some new PHY ethernet IC's to arrive in the mail (current world events aren't helping with shipping delays). if I still have the same issues then it is most definitely either a firmware issue or a driver issue with this hardware??

forgot to mention too, vibe built two boards and used two Mac se/30's for testing, ive also tried A2server and well as Mac OS9.2.2 and Mac OS X server 10.4.11 serving files and I have the exact same issues under all setups and configurations, yet my PDS Lan card worths flawlessly in every single setup... 

I spend a very long time going through all the varried setups testing, then testing again and ive yet to have any real luck... yet

 

[Chopsticks]

I wouldn't do this. Parallel DB25 cables tend to have the GND lines connected together, while having a different pinout from DB25 SCSI. It wouldn't work, and has the potential to do damage if voltages are sent where they shouldn't!

I second this, do make sure is a 25-25pin straight though cable, in the pc world 25pin cables are either wired to printer port use or they are old school 25pin serial port cables so I highly doubt either would work thb

 

[superjer2000]

I'd be curious to hear if you have any issues transferring say 100mb files using FTP to your se/30 or classic etc... I get random a freezes after transferring some data.

Thanks. I’ll give this a try although when I was playing around with it yesterday it seemed like I wasn’t getting any network activity (even over tcp) unless AppleTalk was  turned on over Ethernet.  Now that was on my SE30 that had an internal nic so ,habe there was an issue there.  
 

in an earlier message you indicated you had it working on a IIci. Did I read that correctly?  I’m trying to figure out if this issue is a compact Mac thing or not.  I haven’t pulled out a non compact Mac to test yet.