Quadra 650: Model not showing up & Nubus cards

[Knuckx]

I've got my hands on a Quadra 650 (sold as "powering on" only) and have worked my way through sorting it out and speccing it up: dead HDD replacement with a SCSI2SD, intermittent CD-ROM replacement (from a AppleCD 600i to an AppleCD 12x), PRAM battery replacement, fitting extra VRAM (up to 1MB), installing both Mac OS 7.6.1 and A/UX 3.1.1. I am now left with two unanswered questions:

1 - Why does A/UX's "About This Macintosh" window know what model my Mac is, but Mac OS's "About This Computer" window does not? (I apparently can't upload images, but A/UX shows "Macintosh Quadra 650" in the top left, but Mac OS just shows "Macintosh")

2 - What exactly are these (massive) NuBus cards the system came fitted with, and what software (and, I suspect, additional hardware) do I need to use them?

     Card 1 "ELVIS DIGIDESIGN, INC" has external connections for what looks to be CN-50 SCSI (which I think actually is SCSI) and something that looks like HD50 SCSI (which I think is some sort of proprietary interconnect)

     Card 1 Daughterboard "TDM Piggyback, Single Interface Master (c) 1993, Digidesign, Inc."

     Card 2 "DSP FARM (56002) DIGIDESIGN, INC"

     Card 2 Daughterboard "DIGIDESIGN, INC DUAL TDM PIGGYBACK"

     And a IDC ribbon cable interconnecting the two daughterboards and a smaller board that looks to be a bus terminator (it's covered in surface mount resistors).

Thanks

 

[netfreak]

MacOS stops showing model numbers after 7.1 I believe. The very first 7.5 might still do it but I've never seen it on anything beyond 7.5.x.

The Digidesign stuff more than likely is for audio recording to interface with something like Protools. The cards are mostly useless unless you also have the external box with all the inputs and outputs. One computer I got recently had a single Digidesign Nubus card but also came with the external rack unit for the audio hookups. The cable is physically the same as external 50-pin SCSI I think (not sure if any pins cross over weirdly).

 

[Knuckx]

That makes sense, as A/UX is "running" Macintosh System 7.0.1. I was wondering if I was maybe missing the right enabler in Mac OS 7.6.1.

So if I got my hands on one of the audio interfaces, all I would need is a SCSI cable to connect it to the card? Approximately what version of Protools are we talking about? I'm guessing I would also need an extension or two to enable the card itself.

 

[netfreak]

That makes sense, as A/UX is "running" Macintosh System 7.0.1. I was wondering if I was maybe missing the right enabler in Mac OS 7.6.1.

So if I got my hands on one of the audio interfaces, all I would need is a SCSI cable to connect it to the card? Approximately what version of Protools are we talking about? I'm guessing I would also need an extension or two to enable the card itself.

Unfortunately I haven't tried mine out yet so I'm not completely sure on the details yet. I was probably going to try ProTools 2.0 which is for 68k and I'm assuming supports the Nubus boards. https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/pro-tools-20

 

[Bolle]

Pro Tools 3 will do as well. Pro Tools 2.0 does not support TDM, you need at least 2.5 for that.

Be aware though that you won't be able to use the TDM Features anyways. You need an Auth-Floppy for that that still has authentications left on it.

Finding one of those is probably not going to happen.

You can use the cards without TDM but they will be more or less dumb disk I/O cards then.

The cable to connect the interface is not a standard SCSI cable I think. I will look up the pinout on mine.

 

[Knuckx]

Well the licensing stuff is kinda disappointing. I should have an intact install and license (I hope) if I can convince the original HDD to spin up...

The interface cable is also a bit of a problem if the wiring isn't SCSI standard - my cards didn't come with the cable and none of the interfaces I've seen for sale seem to have a cable either.

 

[jimjimx]

That is not a scsi card at all. 

It is a DSP for connecting a Avid or digidesign 442 audio interface. 

It’s good for 4 channels of audio at 16 bit 44.1 kHz

You may actually ruin the card by using it for SCSI. 

And yes, you can use a standard HD-50 cable. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DIGIDESIGN-442-I-O-QUAD-AUDIO-INTERFACE/183335213331?epid=1340080136&hash=item2aafa15913:g:ZAAAAOSwltJbUe~Z

There is also a black face unit that only says “Digidesign Audio Interface”.. 

 

[jimjimx]

Oh, yeah, one more thing. 

I know it will work with Digidesign Sound Tools and Sound designer software. 

....When I used it in ‘95. 

 

[jimjimx]

Geez... another reply from me!

I was wrong, and that card can be used with the 882 or Session 8.

And you can get protools “3.4 free” here:

http://www.oakbog.com/PT3NuBus.html

 

[Knuckx]

So to confirm, if I install ProTools 3.4 free, install just the DigiDesign Elvis (it's one of these , so it does have SCSI) and connect an interface and a disk it will work?

Obviously I will leave out the DSP Farm and the TDM cable as I will not have a TDM license.

What interfaces can I use - the digidesign page says 882 i/o, 882 studio and 888 i/o; Are there any other interfaces that will work? Can I try this without an interface before I buy one?

 

[jimjimx]

@Knuckx

NO!

The card is not SCSI.

It cannot be used for SCSI.

It WILL NEVER BE SCSI!!!!

You will have to use the onboard SCSI, or a separate SCSI card.

...And a FAST hard drive, or SCSI2SD.

You will get "Disk To Slow" errors if the disk isn't fast enough. 

You pretty much have a project / learning experience on your hands. 

But, depending on your patience, it could be fun. (Oh! The drivers & Digi Engine Errors.. UUuuugggg)

After all, An iPhone has more power than ALL those cards & computer combined.

You can get a 882 for $30 + $10 S&H here:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Digidesign-882-I-O-Audio-Interface-Black-No-Power-Cord-Untested/183991741907?hash=item2ad6c32dd3:g:Hs0AAOSwKVVbOUlz:sc:USPSPriority!60615!US!-1

And you'll need a HD50 cable to link them....

Yes. The same as a Sun Micro HD50 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SCSI-Cable-HPDB50-to-HPDB50-6-ft-HD-50-to-HD-50-SCSI-2-to-SCSI-2-NEW/113164971341?hash=item1a59286d4d:g:ahEAAOSwux5YMxfJ

THE CARD WILL NEVER DO SCSI !!!!

 

[Knuckx]

Well the card is called a "Disk IO" in the diagnostics utility, it has a 50 pin IDC connector, and came with a lead that fits the 50 pin IDC, labelled SCSI; when the card is initialised by the extension, it shows "error" "no disk" on the extension icon, and I've plugged an incompatible disk in and got the message "an error has occurred on the digidesign SCSI bus". The specs from digidesign's archive (http://archive.digidesign.com/support/propix/diskionubuspp.html) say "SCSI Processor- NCR 53C710 SCSI I/O Processor; 30MHz Clock Speed." "SCSI Memory - 8K x 32 Script SRAM Memory; NuBus to Script SRAM DMA supported." "SCSI Interface- Supports SCSI Port Hard Disk Interconnection; Connects to Standard SCSI Hard Drives with custom cable (supplied).".

Anyway, current state is the extension won't initialize the card cos it says "error" "no disk" on the extension icon without a disk; all disks I have tried either aren't detected or get me the message "an error has occurred on the digidesign SCSI bus".

I am not trying to use the audio interface connector for SCSI! I am using the SCSI interface connector for SCSI!

 

[Bolle]

The card does have SCSI and you do in fact have to connect the drive you want to record to to that card.

I think what jimjimx was going to say is that the external connector is not SCSI.

The internal IDC50 is standard SCSI just as you already figured out.

Without the TDM piggyback that card is basically a Disk I/O card (also sold as Session 8 bundled with an 882)

In bigger ProTools systems you would have a separate SCSI card that allows for more than 8 tracks. Without TDM you would max out at 8 tracks I/O per card anyways so connecting the disk right to your I/O card will be fine.

 

[Knuckx]

What ID should the attached disk be? How do I initialize/format the disk? If the attached disk is not formatted, is that why I'm getting the "error" "no disk" during startup with a disk connected?

Thanks for the confirmation that it does have SCSI.

 

[paws]

Hey, just tripped over this post. I'm wondering if you ever got your setup running. I've got one and it's pretty decent when it runs. I don't think it matters what SCSI ID the disk is, but you need to format it as a regular Mac drive, then it will show up on the desktop as well if you need to copy files on or off.