Quadra 650 Strangeness with a SCSI2SD v6, System 7.1, and SCSI Manager 4.3

[turbodrubin]

Hi folks,

I'm new to this corner of the internet, but come to you having recently purchased a Quadra 650, the Mac I always wanted as a wee lad. Internally I've installed a SCSI2SD v6 (Rev f, updated to firmware 6.4.14) with a 2GB card, partitioned and initialized the volume using Apple HD SC Setup 7.3.5, and installed System 7.1 (and System Update 3.0).

All was going swimmingly until I tried installing SCSI Manager 4.3; as the desktop appears (post-"Welcome to Macintosh"), the system seems to hang with the "disk activity" LED on the SCSI2SD lit and unblinking, unresponsive mouse button and keyboard (though the cursor follows mouse movements without hesitation), and no amount of waiting is sufficient.

I have a few other INITs installed, but they don't seem to make any difference.

The SCSI2SD configuration is as shown, with Parity, Unit Attention, and SCSI 2 all enabled:


Any suggestions, ideas, or wild shots in the dark? I'd really like to get this upgrade without having to install System 7.5+, but my google-fu is failing me and I'm not knowledgeable enough to start tracing through MacsBug. Thanks!

 

[ArmorAlley]

I assume that you have followed the standard SCSI rules: each device has its own unique SCSI-ID, each SCSI-ID is less than 7 and the device at the end of each physical chain must be terminated.
Do you have a SCSI CD-ROM in your Q650?
Do you have any external SCSI devices?

Can you start your Q650 without any extensions installed (that is, by holding down the shift key during startup)?
Can you start up your Q650 without the SCSI Manager 4.3 extension?

BTW, what is the purpose of the setting Respond to short SCSI selection pulses?
On a different note, does a v6 bring more to a Q650 than a v5.2?
Does the Q650 have a faster SCSI chip? I didn't think it did but I am open to correction.

 

[lobust]

Not at home to check anything just now, but I use a SCSI2SD v6 on my Q800, which as you probably know is the same logic board as the Q650.

Replying to remind myself to look when I get home!

What I can tell you from memory is that I specifically recall also not being able to boot with SCSI Manager 4.3 installed at some point, but I don't know right now if that's because of the SCSI2SD or because of the Quadra. I was 100% experimenting with SCSI nubus cards at the time too, seeing if it was possible (it wasn't) to boot from a nubus scsi card when the onboard scsi was dead.

I generally run 8.1 on that system, but I have had 7.6 for sure running on there, and I think 7.1 too (I run 7.1 on my Quadra 700, so I might be getting mixed up).

 

[mdeverhart]

Based on Inside Macintosh D: Devices, chapter 4, SCSI Manager 4.3 requires system 7.5:

“SCSI Manager 4.3 is an enhanced version of the SCSI Manager that provides new features as well as compatibility with the original version. SCSI Manager 4.3 is contained in the ROM of high-performance computers such as the Macintosh Quadra 840AV and the Power Macintosh 8100/80. Beginning with system software version 7.5, SCSI Manager 4.3 is also available as a system extension that can be installed in any Macintosh computer that uses the NCR 53C96 SCSI controller chip.”

That aligns with this TidBITS article from 1994:

https://tidbits.com/1994/11/07/why-scsi-manager-4-3/

So - I’d say decide if you want to run System 7.1 or 7.5, and not worry about SCSI Manager 4.3. If you want 7.1, try disabling SM4.3 and see if that works.

 

[cheesestraws]

Yeah, I thought 4.3 required 7.5, also...

 

[turbodrubin]

Thanks for your help!

I assume that you have followed the standard SCSI rules: each device has its own unique SCSI-ID, each SCSI-ID is less than 7 and the device at the end of each physical chain must be terminated.

Yes indeed.

Do you have a SCSI CD-ROM in your Q650?
Do you have any external SCSI devices?

I have a 300i installed as device #3, but no external devices.

Can you start your Q650 without any extensions installed (that is, by holding down the shift key during startup)?

Yes, everything works fine (minus the missing extension functionality ).

Can you start up your Q650 without the SCSI Manager 4.3 extension?

Yes, everything works great.

BTW, what is the purpose of the setting Respond to short SCSI selection pulses?

To be honest, I'm not certain. I enabled it thinking it might make a difference; it doesn't.

On a different note, does a v6 bring more to a Q650 than a v5.2?
Does the Q650 have a faster SCSI chip? I didn't think it did but I am open to correction.

Probably not, but I bought a v6 a couple of years ago to use in a retro PC with fancier SCSI hardware, so that's what I had available for setting up the Q650.

On the subject of requiring 7.5, I interpreted the line from IM: D differently:

Beginning with First shipping with system software version 7.5, SCSI Manager 4.3 is also available [seperately] as a system extension that can be installed in any Macintosh computer that uses the NCR 53C96 SCSI controller chip.

Seems that my interpretation is likely incorrect...