PowerBook G3 adventures - need a little help

[LCGuy]

One of my mates recently picked up a Wallstreet and a Lombard at a swap meet which we're working on, they both have issues of their own, and we could use some help...

Wallstreet: The Wallstreet actually runs really well, apart from a couple of problems - first, the internal display doesn't work. Its not just an issue with the backlight, nothing comes up on the display at all. We think it could be an issue with the display cable either being damaged or disconnected, but we can't really explore that option at the moment, due to the next issue that we need help with with this machine: one of the screws that holds the heat shield on is stripped. We've tried everything short of drilling it out (which neither of us really want to do with a PowerBook), but no matter what, we can't get it out. I've looked at the service manual, which has confirmed my theory that the only way into the Wallstreet, like most PowerBooks, is through the top, through the heat shield.

Lombard: The Lombard has its own issues - firstly, the internal CD-ROM is dead. I have a spare laptop DVD burner here which I've put in it, which was pretty much straightforward. The trouble is that although the drive works, and I can mount discs and access files on them, I can't boot from it. I know this drive can boot a Mac - I have used it to boot my tray load iMac into both OS 9 and OS X. It has a similar issue with a hard drive I've installed in it. The machine came with its original 4GB which works fine, but is a little small. So I installed a 20GB Toshiba that I pulled out of a Compaq. Under both OS 9 and OS X, I can format the drive, I can mount it, and I can read from and write to it, but no matter what, I can not get the machine to boot off it. I've tried formatting it several times in both OS 9 and OS X and I've also tried zeroing it. I have since tried the drive in another PC laptop, and I had no issues installing Windows XP on this drive and booting off it. But no matter what, the Lombard will not boot off it. I've also tried putting the drive into my PowerBook 1400, which won't even recognise the drive. The Lombard has no issues with either the original 4GB, or a non-Apple 2GB drive that i have lying around, so clearly its something to do with the drive. At this point I'm thinking of just buying a new drive for it.

So thats that...thanks in advance

 

[PowerPup]

So you got a blind powerbook and a powerbook that refuses to wake up. Talk about computers with personality.

For the Wallstreet, If you haven't already tried maybe you could take a screwdriver and a small hammer and gently yet firmly pound the screwdriver into the screw. taking it slowly and making sure not to do it too hard. This should help make an impression of the screwdriver so you have something for the screwdriver to catch. Wait for a second opinion before trying this though.... In case there is a reason for NOT doing this.

As for the Lombard, sounds like a real puzzler. However, since I own a Lombard myself I may be able to give a few hints.

First, in my experience with the Lombard, if you want to read a CD, use a CD drive, if a DVD, a DVD drive. I own both a CD and DVD drive for the Lombard. (Though the DVD drive died a few months back.) Whenever I wanted to use a CD or DVD I would always have to switch out the drives. I have no idea why, the DVD drive just didn't like most CDs. You might have to get a regular CD drive before you can boot from a CD. Might just be a Lombard thing.

As for the hard drive, I haven't got a clue... Maybe when you get the CD boot issue fixed you'll be able to format the HD and install Mac OS 9 from the Lombard.

Good luck to you and your friend!

 

[Byrd]

Don't you need to force/solder the pins of the the optical drive to "master" to get it to boot? The drive you installed is probably set to cable select. Might also be the reason why the HD doesn't detect. Also check if there are any jumpers on the HD itself - unlikely though.

If you have a dremel with cutting wheel, you can cut a notch out of the bung screw, or just drill it out - with a slightly smaller bit it will not damage the heatshield's thread. Then, it might just be some dodgy RAM, of the CPU daughtercard not pushed in properly - with luck!

JB

 

[LCGuy]

Thanks for the tips with the screw in the Wallstreet..I think we'd both also prefer to not have to take a hammer to the machine as well...but if we have to, we have to. Also, I don't know about my friend, but I personally don't have a dremel...I'll ask. Thats interesting that you have issues reading CDs in a DVD drive on your Lombard...as I said, I have no issues mounting and reading CDs with this drive on the Lombard, and the iMac has no issues with booting off it. For the record, I actually do have the machine booting off a CD via an external SCSI drive at the moment.

For the record, the drive I'm trying to use with the Lombard (a Sony NEC Optiarc AD-7590A) doesn't have any jumpers or switches on it for switching between Master/Slave/Cable Select, I even took the top off just in case they might be hiding inside, but nup. Thanks for the tip on setting the drive to Master...I'd forgotten about that issue, and it might be why its not booting off that drive...at the moment I'd prefer to not have to solder anything in the drive, just in case I have to use it in a machine that wants it set to CS. As for the hard drive...like most laptop drives, no jumpers.

As for the Wallstreet, with an external display the machine boots and runs perfectly, we just can't see anything on the internal display...hopefully once we get it open we'll find that its just an issue of the internal display not being connected.

 

[techknight]

dumb question. are the drives you using been replaced with third-party drives? or are they still apple certified firmware drives? because i noticed the ROM on those macs were picky about apple brand drives. if i stuck a regular PC CD drive in it, they would electrically connect, and mount on the desktop, but wouldn't boot. only the apple drive booted.

 

[Byrd]

You could use some conductive ink for switching it to master - always can be removed with rubbing alcohol later

 

[Osgeld]

or if you dont have that maybe some pencil graphite, though the resistance would be silly

 

[LCGuy]

techknight: Yeah, they're drives taken from a PC. However, I do have another drive that was also taken from a PC, an IBM 2GB, and the machine has no trouble booting off that, so I don't think it'd be an issue with Apple ROMs.

As for the solder bridge, you guys aren't going to believe this, but I just pulled the interface board out of the expansion bay module...at some point someone has already applied the solder bridge to the board, but it seems he/she has bridged the wrong pins together - according to macdan you're supposed to short pins 45 and 47 together - it seems that they've done 43 and 45...hmm, we might be onto something here...

 

[techknight]

I didnt mean the hard drives. the optical drives.

 

[LCGuy]

Oh right, anyway its a drive that originally came from a PC. Despite this however, my iMac has no difficulty booting from it...so its clearly something to do with the Lombard and non-Apple drives.

 

[MacJunky]

nononono!

Use the right tool for the job! Get something like this.. but whatever the version of it you have in you country is.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00952157000P?mv=rr

These things do work, never failed me. I only ever have to drill out rivets nowadays.

That being said, with my WS/PSQ/whatever of the two it is, I took the short w/ wide head screw out and cut a small slot in it so now I just use a flat-bladed screwdriver to get it out.

 

[Franklinstein]

Is your "Wallstreet" a v1 or v2? I've played with pretty much all of them, and the v1 machines are by far the quirkiest. Anyway, if it's the 13" model, the displays in those are notorious for failing, usually caused by a bad cable. Of course, you'll want to make sure that the cable is properly attached before declaring it dead, which really can't be done until that heat shield is off. As for removing a stripped screw, I can't offer many suggestions that won't damage part of it. Vice grips are usually a last resort, if there's even anything for them to grab.

The Lombard is a different story. Those stupid Matsushita drives died all the time, so I have a stack of them sitting around. As for the CS thing, some drives are set to CS permanently, some drives have a switch, and some (usually OE stuff) are permanently wired as master or slave (usually annotated somewhere on the drive). But, since yours works except for booting, I'd guess that bus mastering isn't the problem. Lombards can just be uncooperative.

I've experienced the hard drive problem in my blueberry iBook before (back in 2002-ish), after I replaced its 3GB drive with a 10GB model I took out of my old 5300cs: it wouldn't do anything with it and Disk Utility didn't want to touch it. So, I had to pull it back out and reformat it with a friend's computer before it would recognize the drive. Afterward, it worked without a problem. You might try getting one of those USB-to-IDE converters (they're really useful), connecting the drive to a working Mac, and reformatting it there. Make sure to use the OS 9-compatible HFS+ partition table instead of MS-DOS, UFS, or GUID.

 

[LCGuy]

This Wallstreet is a Series II, 300 Mhz, 14" display. As for the Lombard...yeah, it might be an idea to get a USB -> notebook IDE adapter and use another machine to format it, though I'm not sure as to how much of a success it will be - I've tried formatting it from both Drive Setup in OS 9 and Disk Utility in OS X on the Lombard to no avail.

 

[LCGuy]

Update on the Wallstreet screw situation - the screw thats in there is actually not the original screw that was once in there...for one thing its certainly not black (as the Service manual specifies)...also, its pretty much completely stripped out, and not in very good condition, but it does seem to be a Phillips head screw, from what we can see.

Also, it seems that its the outside part of the screw that seems to have been stripped, not right inside where the points meet up...we only have access to angled phillips head screwdrivers...if we had one that wasn't angled we might be able to get it out...we'd prefer to not have to take a hammer or drill near a PowerBook if possible...but anyway....

 

[Byrd]

Hammer time no way, but don't be put off by drilling it out - perhaps have some wood around the bit as you drill down to avoid it jumping onto the PCB (it happens .... my Dad once did this to my first "free" computer, a 286 - massive scratch - but meant I could get a 386dx33 )

JB

 

[MacJunky]

Guys, the screw remover set I linked to, find one in your area - really. They dig in and allow you to remove the screw without any hammers/dremelusage/holedrilling. You just need some torque and low speed.

Once the screw is out then by all means cut a slot in it with something if you want. Just get it out safely first.

 

[Paralel]

That set you linked to, is it cobalt?

 

[MacJunky]

I dunno, I do not have that set, but it was a nice big one that made a decent example.

 

[LCGuy]

Just thought I'd update this.

We ended up getting the screw out of the Wallstreet, we found a screw extractor at Bunnings that did the trick. Its goodies have now been transferred over to the Lombard. Meanwhile some new RAM and another hard drive that boots has been sourced for the Wallstreet. As for the Lombard, its now running like a dream, we just need to source a new LCD backlight for it. Thanks for your help everyone