PM 8500 + G3 = video artifacts

[ObeyDaleks]

Hey folks,

I recently grabbed a MAXPower G3 500Mhz card for my MP 8500 to replace my 400Mhz Sonnet (cuz why not? ). The issue I'm facing is that when I drag windows around etc, they leave little outlines and dots around. The menu bars also have some color distortion that gets worse any time I move the windows.

This only happens with the onboard video, it's totally fine with the Radeon 7000. When I switch back to the Crescendo, the onboard video works fine. There are no other issues with the NewerTech card, it is rock solid.

Any idea what the issue can be? One theory I have is that maybe the original VRAM is not fast enough for the new CPU? But I couldn't find any other threads describing anything similar.

P.S. The board is recapped btw.

 

[Phipli]

Hey folks,

I recently grabbed a MAXPower G3 500Mhz card for my MP 8500 to replace my 400Mhz Sonnet (cuz why not? ). The issue I'm facing is that when I drag windows around etc, they leave little outlines and dots around. The menu bars also have some color distortion that gets worse any time I move the windows.

This only happens with the onboard video, it's totally fine with the Radeon 7000. When I switch back to the Crescendo, the onboard video works fine. There are no other issues with the NewerTech card, it is rock solid.

Any idea what the issue can be? One theory I have is that maybe the original VRAM is not fast enough for the new CPU? But I couldn't find any other threads describing anything similar.

P.S. The board is recapped btw.

Oh, this is a thing. Its usually related to bus speed. Can you adjust the accelerator's bus speed?

 

[Phipli]

MP 8500

MP? Or PM?

 

[ObeyDaleks]

Oh, this is a thing. Its usually related to bus speed. Can you adjust the accelerator's bus speed?

It’s a PowerMac 8500, sorry. There are four dip switches on the board, so you might be onto something. I couldn’t find a manual to find out what they do. Or maybe the bus speed is controlled via software?

 

[Phipli]

*Removed*

 

[Phipli]

If you have an onboard cache on the motherboard, you should remove it, or disable it with newer techs control panel.

Have you installed the software for the accelerator?

 

[Phipli]

Try switching dip switch number 3 to the other position.

MAXpowr G3 Processor Card Information Page

MAXpowr G3 processor card dip switch settings and other information.

siber-sonic.com

 

[Phipli]

If you need it for any reason :

 

[joevt]

I have a Radeon in a PowerMac 8600 with 1GHz G4. Video is fine but I get artifacts in screenshots (a small number of pixels are not correct). It's one more thing for you to check.

 

[Phipli]

I have a Radeon in a PowerMac 8600 with 1GHz G4. Video is fine but I get artifacts in screenshots (a small number of pixels are not correct). It's one more thing for you to check.

I think thats a seperate issue. I've often had artifact issues with Radeon 7000s and sort of ignore it. It even happens in unaccelerated machines.

Only thing I'd say is I find the Sonnet driver isn't great with the fast Sonnet Upgrades, I've had better stability using the PowerLogix CPU Director driver with them. Its worth giving it a go.

 

[ObeyDaleks]

Thanks a lot, @Phipli. I will try your suggestions and report back. I did already try the #3 dip switch to ON, per your suggestion, and it didn't help. I also tried last night (before your replies) checking the VRAM by using 2 sticks at a time (I have 4 total) - that should rule out having a bad stick. I will try taking out the cache and playing with the control panel. Also, thanks for the manual!

 

[ObeyDaleks]

So I finally got around to working on this. The problem went away after installing the MaxPowr extension and control panel. I didn’t have to have to change anything, I think the NewerTech default settings made the difference. Thanks again for the tip!

 

[croissantking]

I think thats a seperate issue. I've often had artifact issues with Radeon 7000s and sort of ignore it. It even happens in unaccelerated machines.

Are those the little black lines that flash up near the cursor?

 

[Phipli]

Are those the little black lines that flash up near the cursor?

Yeah, and sometimes they replace the cursor with a square of noise.

 

[croissantking]

I noticed that as well. Do you think it’s a flashed card thing, or just a general R7000 thing?

 

[Phipli]

I noticed that as well. Do you think it’s a flashed card thing, or just a general R7000 thing?

Not sure. Seems to be worse with flashed cards, but I'm not using a real one regularly ATM. I'm playing with less good cards like iXMicro, Matrox, Radius and VillageTronic stuff. Its no fun if they can do everything properly.

 

[ObeyDaleks]

Not sure. Seems to be worse with flashed cards, but I'm not using a real one regularly ATM. I'm playing with less good cards like iXMicro, Matrox, Radius and VillageTronic stuff. Its no fun if they can do everything properly.

TBH, in classic OS those cards are just as good if not better, imho. In my testing many of the older PCI cards had significantly better 2d acceleration than the PCI Radeons. So unless you’re playing 3d games, you’re better off with a IXMicro TT, Rage 128, etc. Of course it depends on the resolutions you’re trying to push.

I noticed that as well. Do you think it’s a flashed card thing, or just a general R7000 thing?

I had zero issues with a flashed Sapphire 7000 as well as a genuine Mac 9200. I only had issues with the internal graphics (Rage II?) and only with the NewerTech 500 card (now solved). Might be your specific card? What brand is it? Does it have a full size ROM?

 

[croissantking]

I had zero issues with a flashed Sapphire 7000 as well as a genuine Mac 9200. I only had issues with the internal graphics (Rage II?) and only with the NewerTech 500 card (now solved). Might be your specific card? What brand is it? Does it have a full size ROM?

Mine is an ATI card, 64MB with full size ROM.

 

[Phipli]

TBH, in classic OS those cards are just as good if not better, imho. In my testing many of the older PCI cards had significantly better 2d acceleration than the PCI Radeons. So unless you’re playing 3d games, you’re better off with a IXMicro TT, Rage 128, etc. Of course it depends on the resolutions you’re trying to push.

I've been benchmarking them as I go along 8, 16 and 24bit. I have to confess this isn't what I'm seeing in 2D QuickDraw. It might be worth checking your Radeon driver setup? See if there are any issues? The Radeon 7000 out performs every other card I own in 2D QuickDraw. I don't have any nVidia cards or Voodoo, but I have lots of other cards, and I love all their quirks.

 

[ObeyDaleks]

I've been benchmarking them as I go along 8, 16 and 24bit. I have to confess this isn't what I'm seeing in 2D QuickDraw. It might be worth checking your Radeon driver setup? See if there are any issues? The Radeon 7000 out performs every other card I own in 2D QuickDraw. I don't have any nVidia cards or Voodoo, but I have lots of other cards, and I love all their quirks.

Hmm my experience is different. I benchmarked these quite extensively some years ago on a G3 desktop (that’s in pieces right now). My results were that even the Twin Turbo was several times faster than the 7000 in QuickDraw acceleration. I did confirm that the 7000 had the right drivers and that acceleration was on. In fact, I remember turning off the acceleration via the ATI Displays tool and benchmarking that for comparison (and it ran dog slow unaccelerated). I further confirmed working drivers by running some 3d games which ran decently well as expected.

In my tests, an unaccelerated TT (without drivers loaded) performed similarly to an accelerated 7000. And with the drivers, the TT left the 7000 in the dust. Same with the Rage 128.

I currently have the Radeon 9200 Mac edition in the PM8500 and I just ran the Norton benchmark last night, and it scored slightly above stock PM 6100 in the video benchmark. I then ran the benchmark using the PM 8500 onboard video, and the result was significantly faster. I’ll try to find time to run MacBench to compare the 9200 against the Rage 128 in the 8500.

So to summarize, in my test results that were ran 2 different systems with a variety of cards and variety of drivers, the Radeons were significantly slower than the IXMicro and Rage 128 cards in QuickDraw (2d) acceleration.

I guess it’s possible that there are faster drivers out there somewhere that I missed. The ATI video acceleration extension is from 2005 and loads fine and the ATI menu shows it’s turned on.

All of these tests were done in Max OS 9.2.2, btw.