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NuBus and drivers...?

commodorejohn

Well-known member
So I'm putting together a Quadra 840AV basically out of parts (got a motherboard + RAM en route, need to find a housing for it.) But I'm trying to expand it a little, too; specifically, I plan on getting a NIC, since NuBus Ethernet cards go for about as much as AAUI-to-RJ45 adapters or less. But I've never owned a NuBus Mac (well, aside from the IIcx we had back when, which I never worked in,) so I'm not sure to what extent drivers are a requirement. (I gather that video cards had some kind of standard ROM that the OS could use to determine capabilities, for example.) Am I going to need to dig up a driver for the card I buy? Is there an archive of drivers out there somewhere?

For the record, the cards I'm looking at:

Asante MCNB

Cabletron E6119-X

Farallon EtherMac

Techworks

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Asante has a wonderful history for ancient driver download support . . .

. . . and yes, you'll need drivers.

However, unless you're getting a faster NIC, the AAUI dongle is a better investment, as it will preserve the pitiful slot allotment of your 840AV for more interesting cards.

The dongle will be useful across the full spectrum of your AAUI equipped collection as well. ;)

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Any Vidcard that'll drive a monitor larger than 16" at more than 8bit or 16bit pops directly to mind. The 840AV's onboard video subsystem is great for quick redraws up to middling resolutions, but NuBus is the exclusive realm of driving millions of pixels at millions of colors on 68k.

 

Charlieman

Well-known member
Get the AAUI adapter and save a NuBus slot. You'll need it for a SCSI accelerator. Trash80 would fit a Radius or SuperMac NuBus 24 bit video card in your circumstances, and so would I. The other option would be RasterOps but I got bitten back in the day by their lousy driver support and have yet to recover.

 

commodorejohn

Well-known member
Any Vidcard that'll drive a monitor larger than 16" at more than 8bit or 16bit pops directly to mind. The 840AV's onboard video subsystem is great for quick redraws up to middling resolutions, but NuBus is the exclusive realm of driving millions of pixels at millions of colors on 68k.
Hmm. I actually have a Radius PrecisionColor 24XP en route, but I'd gathered NuBus cards tend to be slower than the 840AV's onboard video? Then again, it is QuickDraw-accelerated...I'll experiment and see what works best, I guess.

So, video card, faster SCSI...anything else worth looking into?

 

commodorejohn

Well-known member
Does the SpigotPower AV improve anything besides video capture/playback? That really isn't important to me (I got the 840AV on account of its being the fastest 68k Mac, and if I use the DSP at all it'll be for Photoshop and possibly some audio work.)

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
. . . but I'd gathered NuBus cards tend to be slower than the 840AV's onboard video?
GACK!!! That's the same old tripe my old 'fritter buddy Chris Lawson & co. over at LEM were pushing back in the day. OF COURSE PDS video is faster than NuBus at the piddling resolutions and bit depths it supports. However . . . that I/O bottleneck is a moot point . . .

. . . Apple NEVER BUILT A PDS BASED VIDEO SUBSYSTEM WORTH A DAMN for anything over the middling size resolution of their 16" Monitor spec during the entire 68k era!

If you're doing PhotoShop, a NuBus Card driving a TPD @24bit with four DSPs on board pounds the snot outta the 840AV's onboard video and single DSP. The MoBo video is fine for palettes, fast for gaming and great for tiny Video window playback . . .

. . . but it takes a gnarly NuBus card to do Photoshop justice. :approve:

 

commodorejohn

Well-known member
I sense I've touched a nerve :lol: In fairness, 800x600x24 ain't nothing to sneeze at, and 1024x768x16 is at least usable for web browsing (though you really want 24-bit color for Photoshop,) but as I said, I'll give both a shot and see how they stack up.

 

Charlieman

Well-known member
Apple NEVER BUILT A PDS BASED VIDEO SUBSYSTEM WORTH A DAMN for anything over the middling size resolution of their 16" Monitor spec during the entire 68k era!
At which point it is pertinent to shut Trash80 up.

Radius et al made fine NuBus cards that deliver high res quickly. Radius and a few others made great PCI hi res cards.

Built-in Mac graphics adapters are functionally limited. If you can live with 800 x 600 or 1024 x 768 without many colours, built-in graphics is tolerable.

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Piffle . . . :p

. . . 16" is not an adequate resolution for pro level graphics, this was painfully obvious by the time Apple shipped the 840AV at the very tail end of the 68k era. It ought to have had 3MB of V-RAM at that price point.

Amiga was very cool, but never mainstream.

 

bbraun

Well-known member
FWIW, cards can provide drivers via the Declaration ROM, but there is no requirement that they do so. They must have a declaration ROM of some sort (otherwise the card isn't mapped into the processor's address space), but they do not need to provide a driver.

Graphic cards almost universally do, otherwise you couldn't really boot with them (there wouldn't be any display output until after booting far enough to load the driver, and then even then only if the driver is properly installed and you're not booting with extensions disabled).

Apple ethernet cards do not have drivers in the declaration rom (or system rom for onboard ethernet), you need the drivers in the extensions folder. The Asante cards also do not have drivers, they pretend to be Apple cards and use the Apple drivers. The EtherPortII cards actually do have a driver in ROM, which makes things pretty handy when using that card.

SCSI cards virtually all have their own drivers in ROM as well, since that's how they boot. When the slot is selected in PRAM, the system ROM uses the drivers in the declaration ROM to "boot". I put boot in quotes there, since different cards do different things from their drivers, most commonly they pass the boot sequence through to the driver loaded from the selected disk's driver partition.

Other types of cards are hit and miss.

As for what you "should" do, it seems like lots of people have lots of opinions for you to choose from. I've already gone through the "omg, must fill all slots with coolest stuff!" phase, and after accumulating a box full of neato nubus cards, I found I didn't really use most of them. While being neato, their primary function seemed to be converting electricity into heat. As far as graphics go, the speed difference between low end cards and high end cards is largely lost in the rounding error of the last 20 years of technological advancements. The onboard graphics will do 1152x870@16bit just fine with appropriate vram. If you need higher resolution or more colors, get a card.

 
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