My IIsi Won't Boot From HDDs

[Donald]

OK, before we moved to a new house (yeah, nothing good ever starts that way), my IIsi was last booted around 3 years ago. it has a 40MB Quantum ELS in it. Kinda got tied up with other stuff. Now, I'm ready to sort thru some 100 Disk Doubler-ed floppies and it won't boot.

On startup, I get a Mac icon with the ? in it. Boots fine with a floppy. I hear the Quantum spin up. It makes a whining sound, so I was thinking maybe a bum HDD.

Following prior postings, I replaced the PRAM battery and reset it. It's keeping time now, so I know that's working.

Tried my 1GB Jaz drive (the only other SCSI device I had at the time) and it wouldn't boot from it. However, the access light on the Jaz blinked rhythmically, like it was being polled. I double checked the SCSI termination, even replaced the stock cable with another with a terminator on it. Still doesn't boot from it. Just blinks regularly, like the bus is being polled (which I guess it is being SCSI, right?).

Just got a new HDD from EBay yesterday. 2.1GB IBM. It spins up too, but has no whine! There is a longer pause, but still can't see the drive when booted from floppy. I have a 6.0.7 boot floppy that has the 7.3.5 (or is that 7.5.3) patched HD Setup on it. Says device isn't found. I have downloaded but haven't copied over some other SCSI utils to test that I have the drive on the right SCSI ID.

It starts up fine from floppy and I can move the system to a ram drive, so if pressed, I can make do and get my files expanded properly. But I really grew attached to having a hard drive!

So, since I've tried multiple devices, I thought maybe it's a blown capacitor. I have no goo on my board and all the caps look (to me at least, and I'm even less than novice) fine. No bulges. No scorch marks on the board either.

At this point, I'm thinking the SCSI connector is hosed up and I was thinking of getting a DB 25 - DB 50 adapter to plug the hard drive into the external SCSI port. Is that a good "next step" or should I check/look in another direction first?

Thanks in advance for all help!

Donald

 

[Scott Baret]

A few things to keep in mind here:

1. Apple HD SC Setup will only see Apple-branded hard drives. Even if you swap the drive with a non-Apple ProDrive, for example (very common brand in SCSI-equipped Macs) it won't recognize it. Look for an Apple logo either on the drive itself or on a sticker on the drive.

2. If you have another Mac, you may want to test the drive in there. Alternately, look for an external SCSI enclosure and try to fit the drive to that. This will rule out the actual drives being bad.

3. You had mentioned some utilities for checking SCSI connectivity. Either SCSI Tools or SCSI Probe will work here. Both should be available on the shareware/freeware sites.

4. Regarding the Quantum ProDrive LPS--were there any known issues with it when it was last used? Also, be aware that these drives are starting to die out after nearly 20 years. I've had more ProDrives die in the last two years than I have in the nearly 22 years I've worked with Apple hardware. (Most, however, have been of the ELS variety).

 

[Donald]

Carved out some time after work this morning to try some more things out.

Yes, I was aware of the Apple-branded drive issue with HD SC Setup. I'm using a "patched" version that did see the drive .... once I booted into 7.0.1. :I All this time, I had thought it was ok to run that under 6.0.7. *sigh* I used SCSI Tools while under 6.0.7 and saw the SCSI id being used. Also found out it wasn't the ID I had thought it was using! The Quantum was not visible under SCSI Tools though, so I'm with you: drive just took a dumpy dump. I last used it some 2-3 years ago, so I don't doubt that it's gone.

Under System 7.0.1, I was able to see and format the new IBM branded drive using "Mount Everything" and "SCSI Format and Install". "Mount Everything" is system 7 only though, hence why it wasn't working under the 6.0.7 boot disk. [i actually read the instructions first, but glossed over that fact for about 30 minutes, for whatever reason.]

Soooooo, the IBM is on ID 0. Got it mounted and recognized by 7.0.1. Had to use SCSI Format and Install's hard drive driver to make it visible. After formatting though, the finder said I had 2.1GB free, but I couldn't copy anything to it. It said I needed 2.1GB more space! hehehe Sooooo, I'm guessing that on-drive driver needs some tweaking. I have *NOT* read the entire instruction manual for SCSI Format and Install, so bear with me another night, please. At present, don't know what I did, but the drive isn't viewable under System 6 or 7 again. Needed to get some sleep, so I'll give it another try tonight or this weekend.

For those stumbling on this in the future: http://home.earthlink.net/~gamba2/tidbits.html

Gamba's got a great site with links and explanations of a LOT of stuff that you need to know for a lot of problems, not just hard drive stuff. BUT, the hard drive section has been invaluable to me!

So, next on the list is to find/get a copy of ResEdit and patch up my System 6.0.7 HD Setup. I don't mind 7, but my "core" software setup has been 6.0.7. Don't want to upset the boat, yet.

If I can't get the drive "Found" under 6.0.7, then I'll download the 7.5.3 disks and use the patched HD Setup I have to initialize the drive again.

 

[Donald]

OK, today's update, of sorts. I found out why I can only get this to work in 7.0.1. It's because of the "Mount Everything" control panel. It's system 7 only . The drive is there under 6, but I have no way to partition or format it without it being mounted. Using "Mount Everything"'s driver, the disk survives reboots, but not power off's. Once I power off, gotta mount it again and then it's there for the duration.

BTW, also plodded thru the space issue. Had to format it to "50% MacIntosh" (1GB) and the drive works normally. Put system 7 on it and booted from it repeatedly (just no shutdown!). MAN, that's fast! :grin:

Gamba's got some low level formatters on his sight. Will they put the "on disk driver" code or whatever on the drive so that I can cold boot from it? If that's the problem.

 

[Donald]

Well, the Google University comes thru again.

It made no sense to me why the drive would not work on cold boots. The Ebay seller said it was a pull from an Apple, but I'm thinking, not so much! In one of the programs, it stated that it was IBM PC formatted before I initialized it. With that in mind, went to Google U. and found the jumper listing. Two jumper settings stood out immediately: active termination on (was already set) and "auto start" (was not set). Snagged a jumper and now the drive boots from cold just fine! It's also available under 6.0.7 since I don't have to use "Mount Everything"'s mounting option anymore. I am using "Mount Everything"'s on disk driver and though it's not visible from "regular" HD Setup, it is available from floppy boots now.

Used my trusty 6.0.7 installation disks and now I'm booted from the hard drive under 6.0.7! Yeah, baby!!! Won't get anything meaningful done all weekend now while I play with all must control panels and inits from years gone by! Think I'll start with "On Startup" and "Bomb Shelter". :lol: