Macintosh Classic - not booting from HDD or ROM

[gingerbeardman]

I got my Macintosh Classic out of storage (about 4 years since it was last used). I opened it up and took out the PRAM battery as a precaution (but it looks fine). Mac is remarkably clean and was hardly used when I bought it and hardly used since. 

But... now I'm booting it and it won't recognise the hard drive? I've made a startup floppy and that boots but still no hard drive? 

Disk Tools freezes when looking for SCSI drives.

Won't boot from ROM (cmd+opt+x+o)

Capacitor problem? Dead hard drive?

Any ideas? 

Thanks!

matt

-- 

Cornwall, UK

 

[cheesestraws]

Hello to Cornwall from Wiltshire!

Some thoughts in no particular order:

• If it hasn't been recapped, it's a good idea to do it or get it done.  All electrolytic caps on there are on the way out at this point, honestly.  It's not a magic wand for fixing things, but it still will need to happen at some point.
   
  
• Old SCSI drives die; ones this age are definitely starting to show their age, and it wouldn't be surprising for it to have died.  It's entirely possible for a dodgy SCSI drive to wedge the whole bus, so try unplugging it and seeing if SCSI Probe or whatever starts behaving and showing the bus as empty.
   
  
• Won't boot from ROM - perhaps a silly question, but have you checked that the keyboard is working in general?  It would be odd for it to get to the desktop booting from floppy but not recognise cmd-opt-x-o, and the simplest possible cause for that to eliminate first would simply be one of the cmd, opt, x and/or o buttons not actually working.
  

 

[LaPorta]

I agree with cheesestraws. HD is probably gone, and a recap is definitely in order. The ROM in general is working because otherwise, the machine would never start. I would venture the same: one key is probably not working.

 

[gingerbeardman]

I'll recap it for sure. 

Keyboard works: to type the label name of my system floppy ("System FD"), and also the only way to get it to boot from floppy is for me to hold command+alt+shift+delete. I'll try all keys next time I boot it up. 

I'll probably go for SCSI2SD if the drive is still dead after recapping. Ideally I'd like to salvage/catalog the contents so I can prepare the SD in much the same way. 

 

[cheesestraws]

I'd suggest just unplugging the HD first before anything else and see if it will floppy boot then without the special keys.

scsi2d is a reasonable option, certainly

 

[AndiS]

Regarding the boot from Rom issue. Mine also would not do that after recapping and repair. Clearing the PRAM on boot (comand+option+p+r) made it work again!

I would suggest to disconnect the HD first, then reset the PRAM and then try to boot from ROM. Let us know what happens!

 

[MrFahrenheit]

Regarding the boot from Rom issue. Mine also would not do that after recapping and repair. Clearing the PRAM on boot (comand+option+p+r) made it work again!

I would suggest to disconnect the HD first, then reset the PRAM and then try to boot from ROM. Let us know what happens!

I’ve had the same issue. When clearing PRAM it is best to let it reset at least 3 times, and from new power on not a reboot. Additionally, I had an issue with my Mac back in the 90s and called Apple support and they said sometimes the 3 cycle is needed, but if that didn’t work a 10 cycle is sometimes better. I’ve actually had to do that a few times. Not sure what the difference is between it resetting PRAM on one boot, keeping it held down and letting it go 3 times, and sitting there hurting your hands for 10 but it can help. 

 

[gingerbeardman]

Update:

- All keys on keyboard work just fine (see photo)

with hard drive power and data disconnected:

- Boots from floppy

- Boots from ROM with key combo (cmd+opt+x+o)

either way:

- PRAM reset key combo still does nothing? (cmd+opt+p+r)

Any further thoughts?

 

[MrFahrenheit]

My guess is that something on that drive is corrupt or damaged, or if the machine needs a recap and the capacitor near SCSI has leaked and is shorting out scsi somewhere. 

 

[gingerbeardman]

Is that capacitor visible in my earlier photos? If not, I can take more photos. 

In other news:

I'm just about to zap the PRAM from System 6 (hold cmd+opt+shift+tab whilst opening Control Panel)

 

[MrFahrenheit]

Is that capacitor visible in my earlier photos? If not, I can take more photos. 

In other news:

I'm just about to zap the PRAM from System 6 (hold cmd+opt+shift+tab whilst opening Control Panel)

View attachment 40467

There is no shot of the motherboard from the top which shows just your motherboard with all components on it. However it’s a moot point because it can leak without being noticeable on a photo. 
 

Also, zap pram while holding the four keys when off, switch on, wait for 3 reboot chimes then let go. 

 

[gingerbeardman]

Zapping PRAM from System 6 did not change any of the symptoms. 

 

[gingerbeardman]

- Photos of both sides of the logic board





- Photo of the other side of the memory expansion board

 

[gingerbeardman]

Looking more closely at the photos it does looks like there's a problem around C8. 

 

[cheesestraws]

A lot of people round here don't read the thread.

Recapping is not magic and despite the fashionable view, is not the proximate cause of every problem in life.  It is necessary, but not sufficient.

My bet would be on the drive itself being knackered rather than anything funny with the SCSI bus itself.

 

[LaPorta]

I agree. By far, the simplest way to rule out causes is to either slip in a replacement HDD, or disconnect the internal and use a known-good external SCSI drive. If all is well, then you know it is the original drive that is kaput. If it still doesn't work, then start hunting down more esoteric issues.

 

[MrFahrenheit]

You have some significant corrosion at VR1 and the SCSI chip at UE8 shows signs of capacitor leakage and corrosion. Try cleaning that area with a toothbrush and IPA99 to remove the green gunk on the chips. 

 

[gingerbeardman]

I've ordered an SCSI2SD and 2MB extra RAM. 
 

Where do people recommend for cap kits?
 

Console5 are not shipping to the UK because Brexit and the into other one I can find on eBay ships from Russia. I don't really want to import, or buy more caps than I need. 

 

[MrFahrenheit]

I've ordered an SCSI2SD and 2MB extra RAM. 
 

Where do people recommend for cap kits?
 

Console5 are not shipping to the UK because Brexit and the into other one I can find on eBay ships from Russia. I don't really want to import, or buy more caps than I need. 

If you’re in a bind trying to locate some I can either sell and ship you the logic board caps, or I can refer you to LCSC.com where I source my caps from. I haven’t yet delved into analog board recapping so I don’t have those nor do I have parts loads on them. 
 

I have tantalum caps of the ones needed on the logic board. Shipping will be more than the caps however.