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Mac Classic Troubles

paulwilco

Member
Hi everyone,

Im currently trying to fix up a Mac Classic for a museum i volunteer at, but am not having a huge amount of luck. I will describe my process so far.

When the Mac was given to us it wouldn't boot from the hard drive, it would only produce a question mark icon. It did, however, boot from the internal OS. I should also say that when switched on from cold the screen would be just lines and very wavy. After a few minutes the picture would be steady and turning it off and on would bring up the exclamation mark icon/boot to internal OS by pressing the key combination.
I had the logic board recapped and initially the hard drive span up and it booted from it, everything on the hard drive could be read. This lasted about 24 hours. After this it would boot from the hard drive and not allow access to the files, then on boot the hard drive would spin up and i would get the exclamation mark again then finally on boot there was no sound from the HDD and just the exclamation mark. At this point it would still boot to the internal OS.
I had the HDD tested and it was found to be working on a different machine. At this point i decided to recap the analogue board. This is where things have taken a turn for the worse! when removing the old caps i forgot to initially make a note of the voltage of each one i removed. When i realised i worked out which was which through process of elimination, i think i got the correct ones but there is a bit of room for potential error here. Now when i switch the computer on i get a wavy screen as before but every few seconds it sounds like its resetting, the screen goes blank momentarily and the internal speaker makes a very short blip. Obviously at this point there is no booting at all.

I think in the first instance i need to make absolutely sure i have the correct replacement capacitors. I haven't been able to find any conclusive list (this is also a UK240v machine).

If there is any advice on what could be causing the resetting issue it would be very gratefully received!
 

paulwilco

Member
Hi Philip,

No it's in Hertfordshire, we have a small vintage computer room in the museum which we are working on at the moment.

I've heard about the new one in Derby, looks great!
 

paulwilco

Member
I haven't checked the voltages yet, I could find the right schematic. Didn't think about the floppy drive connector! I'll check tomorrow and report back, thanks for the quick replies!
 

cheesestraws

Well-known member
Keep watch for a while, to see if they're fluctuating, rather than just taking momentary measurements. It feels a bit like you're getting into a situation where the power lines occasionally wander into spec by accident, causing the machine to reset, but otherwise are not behaving properly.

It might also be worth looking at the 5V line with an oscilloscope, if you have access to one—obviously don't poke any of the higher voltage bits with it!—but at least I've had a couple of machines with wibbly screens where that's been caused by power supply ripple.

Do you have the AB schematics?
 

Phipli

Well-known member
Hi Philip,

No it's in Hertfordshire, we have a small vintage computer room in the museum which we are working on at the moment.

I've heard about the new one in Derby, looks great!
Shame, I'd have popped over if it was Derby. I'm not far away.

This any help to check you got the caps right?
 

paulwilco

Member
Keep watch for a while, to see if they're fluctuating, rather than just taking momentary measurements. It feels a bit like you're getting into a situation where the power lines occasionally wander into spec by accident, causing the machine to reset, but otherwise are not behaving properly.

It might also be worth looking at the 5V line with an oscilloscope, if you have access to one—obviously don't poke any of the higher voltage bits with it!—but at least I've had a couple of machines with wibbly screens where that's been caused by power supply ripple.

Do you have the AB schematics?
I don't have the schematics, i couldn't find them. Do you have a link? I do have an oscilloscope so i will have a look at the 5v supply line
Shame, I'd have popped over if it was Derby. I'm not far away.

This any help to check you got the caps right?
Thanks for the link, the only difference is the cap at the top of the cluster on my board was 1000uf 35v and on that picture it is 470uf 50v. I know that one is correct, not sure why its different to the one illustrated on that picture. Other than that it look like i have all correct caps.
 

cheesestraws

Well-known member
I don't have the schematics, i couldn't find them. Do you have a link? I do have an oscilloscope so i will have a look at the 5v supply line

Here's the big dump of bomarc schematics:


I've attached the Classic ones here below from that dump if you don't fancy downloading the whole lot.

Bear in mind that there are two revisions of the Classic analogue board: the PDF includes schematics for both, make sure you're looking at the right one.
 

Attachments

  • Macintosh Classic Schematic (bomarc).pdf
    7.4 MB · Views: 16

paulwilco

Member
I have tested the outputs on the FDD connector. The results are as follows;

Pin 5 -11.75v steady
Pin 6 +4.33v fluctuates when it resets
Pin 7. +11.07 fluctuates when it resets
Pin 8. +11.07 fluctuates when it resets

I haven't had a good look through the schematics yet, will do later.
 

paulwilco

Member
Thanks for that, I'm pretty sure I have the correct caps in the correct places now. Not sure if I should desolder them and check the polarities, I was very careful putting them in though!
 

paulwilco

Member
Here's the big dump of bomarc schematics:


I've attached the Classic ones here below from that dump if you don't fancy downloading the whole lot.

Bear in mind that there are two revisions of the Classic analogue board: the PDF includes schematics for both, make sure you're looking at the right one.
Thanks very much for that, gonna take a while to get my head around them!
 

mg.man

Well-known member
The results are as follows;
"+5" and "+12" look really (too) low. IIRC, there's small potentiometer [PP1?] which you can adjust - I *think* there's a small hole on the backside of the 'board you can get a [NON-CONDUCTIVE, small screwdriver like] tool through. *Edit* - nope, looks like you need to get to it from "inside".

Be careful, it affects both voltages, so monitor the 12V pin while adjusting.
 
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paulwilco

Member
Ok having slowly moved the potentiometer from side to side there is a bit of an improvement. There is no resetting now, just a wobbly screen. Whereas before the wobbly screen would steady after a few minutes now it is staying wobbly.

Could it maybe be a diode problem? Taking the board out a cleaning may have disturbed another component and pushed it over its limit.
 

mg.man

Well-known member
The typical approach to "wobbly video" is to check for cold / weak solder joints - reflow those for all the connections to the A/B - such as those for the flyback, neckboard, etc. Since you've re-capped, it may / may not be that, but worth checking. I also recently ran across the following (though I've not had opportunity to check this out on any of my "wobbly" A/Bs yet) :
 
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