I've realised that my 6100 is rubbish... :-(

[Quadraman]

A G4 in a Nubus PowerMac? That's surely insane!

It's slow as crap as far as G4's go. There are G3's for the 6100 with a faster clock speed, so if you don't need Altivec, the fastest G3 upgrades are better.

 

[Bunsen]

I had the exact same 6100->G3 transition crisis you're having now, about 7 years ago.

The 6100 cannot accept a full-length NuBus card.

Yes it can }

Cue sound of Dremel in background

 

[Patrickool93]

Actually, you can just move the Hard drive to the CD place, if there is none, or boot off an external

 

[TylerEss]

Sorry that it seems like rubbish!

You're totally right about it being rubbish, sorta. A 6100 is a terrible machine for doing the job of a BW G3. A BW G3 can't run System 7.5, though, nor does it have that nice low-slung shape.

I'd love to have an upgraded 6100 running 7.5.5, if I needed a desktop computer. With a 4MB HPV card from an 8100 you could drive a decent-size LCD.

The 6100 holds as much RAM as you care to buy for it on eBay, up to 256MB. With a G3 card and a fast hard disk, 7.5 or 7.6 would be super-snappy fast. Toss a CD-R in and you've got nearly as capable a System 7 machine as anyone, in an adorable VCR-shaped case.

If I wanted to run MacOS 9, I'd upgrade that BW G3 or an AGP G4, not a 6100. If I wanted to run PowerPC System 7, I'd totally consider a 6100 to be in the running. As another august poster has said, it's all about the expectations.

 

[Quadraman]

If I wanted to run PowerPC System 7, I'd totally consider a 6100 to be in the running.

For the prices of beige machines these days, if you want a system 7 machine, then a PCI Powermac will be much better than a 6100. A 7x00 machine will run 7-9 and be a lot faster and more expandable and can run OS X. A 6100 can't.

 

[The Macster]

A 7x00 machine will run 7-9 and be a lot faster and more expandable and can run OS X. A 6100 can't.

Although given the availability of G3s these days, you wouldn't really get any pre-G3 machine for OS X, given that it will most likely be very slow (except perhaps on some of the last ones eg 9600) and you can only go up to Jaguar anyway. The only reason I would install OS X on one, if I had one, would be that it would be interesting getting it to work and seeing it run! For actually using

in an adorable VCR-shaped case.

Agreed, the 6100 does have a nice case design, and can be fitted somewhere where one of the later PPCs probably wouldn't fit. Though it looks ugly with yellowing and without the CD bezel, which contributes to my feeling of rubbishness!

I had the exact same 6100->G3 transition crisis you're having now, about 7 years ago.

I suppose in another 7 years time I'll be having the G3 to G5/Intel transition crisis that some of you seem to be having now...

 

[Quadraman]

Although given the availability of G3s these days, you wouldn't really get any pre-G3 machine for OS X, given that it will most likely be very slow (except perhaps on some of the last ones eg 9600) and you can only go up to Jaguar anyway.

My 7500 is running Tiger.

 

[The Macster]

You've presumably got a G3 upgrade card then? What's the performance like? What sort of video card do you have in there, as I would expect that would need to be upgraded too for reasonable OS X performance.

 

[Quadraman]

I only have a G3 250, so it's really not a very good Tiger machine, but it does work. I use my G4 for OS X apps. One day I'll get a G4 upgrade and maybe Leopard will even work.

 

[Bugsi]

I used to run a pair of 64 meg simms in my 6100 with no trouble *unless* I tried to use them at the same time with a Sonnet G3 accelerator. The two just would not work for more than about 60 seconds with out hanging. Dropping to a pair of 16 meg simms it would run fine, or running the 64 meg simms without the G3 upgrade ran fine. YMMV.

Check inside your 6100 to see if you have the PDS 90-degree adapter already. If you do have the adapter, or can get one elsewhere, I have a couple of the AV cards lying about, I'd be happy to part with one for $5 plus shipping?

I have to agree though, a PCI-based beige PowerMac gives a better user experience. But the 6100 had a great looking case, with bays for just one hard drive, one floppy drive, and one CD drive -minimalism that wasn't really bested until the iMac, IMHO.

 

[The Macster]

Check inside your 6100 to see if you have the PDS 90-degree adapter already. If you do have the adapter, or can get one elsewhere, I have a couple of the AV cards lying about, I'd be happy to part with one for $5 plus shipping?

I don't think there is anything at all in there at the moment, no adapter or anything like that. It may have had a card installed at some point though, as there is a gap on the back where the card would come out, which would presumably be covered up otherwise. It does have the wrong top cover (says 66 when it's a 60), so I suppose it could have been an AV or DOS machine and since lost its card, there's no way of knowing. Thanks for the offer, but even if I did have an adapter I doubt it would be worth the cost of shipping the card over here, given that it would still be slow and ugly (no bezel) :'(

I have to agree though, a PCI-based beige PowerMac gives a better user experience.

Just out of interest, when did the in-built display output get any good (ie capable of producing something useable like 1024x768 and more than 256-colour, or even 800x600 with more than 256-colour)? Did the first PCI machines have it or did it take a while for this to appear? Are the first PCI machines also noticeably faster than the Nubus PPCs, or do you again have to go quite a way forward to get decent performance? Not that I'm thinking of looking for one or anything, I'm just curious as I don't have any experience of anything between the 6100 and the G3.

 

[Quadraman]

I don't think the onboard video on any beige was ever that great, except for the G3. Anyone who is serious about using a beige PCI Powermac eventually puts a video card in one of the slots.

As for performance differences, the beige PCI Macs cover a large range from 601 based to G3 based. Something like a 7200/75 probably won't be noticable over a 7100/80 but a 7600/200 or G3/266 would be.

 

[Bunsen]

x2xx - avoid

The motherboard video on x100s is "vampire video" - it uses system RAM rather than separate (and faster) VRAM. A meg of cache is supposed to speed things up nicely, but 1MB cache for that model is as rare as rocking horse spoor, and pricey when it does turn up. Neatly enough, many of the G3 upgrades have a meg of cache on them ...

 

[alk]

I don't think the onboard video on any beige was ever that great, except for the G3. Anyone who is serious about using a beige PCI Powermac eventually puts a video card in one of the slots.

I could probably agree with that for the most part, but for the record, the 6500/5500 used the same ATI Rage II/IIc/II+ video that the rev A G3s used. It's pretty slick. The only drawback is the 2 MB VRAM limitation on those models.

The 7600/8600 had decent 2D graphics with up to 4 MB VRAM, but they weren't screamers by any means.

Peace,

Drew

 

[risc_management]

If you don't like it, you can send it to me. }

 

[The Macster]

Lol, I probably would if you were closer! Now that I've got the G3 and used 9.2.2/10.4.10 on there, the 6100/60 ends up just irritating me with its slowness and terrible video output :'( I used to love it too, when it was my most powerful Mac and I wasn't trying to use it with a decent screen that shows up its limitations.

 

[Bunsen]

Check inside your 6100 to see if you have the PDS 90-degree adapter already. If you do have the adapter, or can get one elsewhere, I have a couple of the AV cards lying about, I'd be happy to part with one for $5 plus shipping?

I don't think there is anything at all in there at the moment, no adapter or anything like that.

Well, the G3 upgrade cards also act as AV card adapters...

 

[heebiejeebies]

You are trying to play Wagner with a baroque orchestra mate. Of course a 1994 Mac is going to look like rubbish if you put it on a higher-res screen than it was designed for. And run like rubbish if you thrash it with system 9. If you don't get the same peculiar joy from running system 7.5 at 640x480 on a 14 inch that most of us do then maybe you should reassess your hobby of collectin' old Macs. Learn to love Bach!

By the way, my main machine from 2000 - 2002 was a 6100 and it served me well... Respect its limitations!

 

[paws]

I too have spent many hours with the 6100 and I truly feel it is a great computer for what it does!

 

[LCGuy]

Well said, guys. The thing is this: Your 6100 is a terriffic machine. Brilliant. However, your G3 is better, which is giving you the perception that the 6100 is crap, even though it isn't.