Issue with IIci and Display Card 24AC

[pfuentes69]

Hello,
I got one of these cards...

As far I can see this is the version sold by Apple of the Radius PrecisionColor Pro 24AC. As per the sticker in the ROM chip, it seems to be version 1.1

I'm using it in my IIci with System 7.5.5 (supposedly it should work as the ROM is 1.1). The card itself works in different resolutions and up to 24 bits, but the acceleration doesn't seem to be active. I tried to install different versions of the QuickColor extension included in RadiusWare, but when starting the extension icon appears crossed out in red, and when trying to open the control panel I get an error.


I wonder if there are other "drivers" apart of the ones from RadiusWare, or if this particular version of the card will not work with 7.5.5

Does anyone has experience with a similar setup (IIci and 7.5.5) ?

Thanks!

 

[Phipli]

I got one of these cards...

Good find. A very nice card.

I'm using it in my IIci with System 7.5.5 (supposedly it should work as the ROM is 1.1).

The 1.1 ROM is the "Apple" ROM and works with just about anything, 68k and PPC. Version 1.0 was internal only, so they're all 1.1.

tried to install different versions of the QuickColor extension included in RadiusWare, but when starting the extension icon appears crossed out in red, and when trying to open the control panel I get an error.

This card is an Apple card and doesn't use QuickColor. It uses the Apple driver. See attached. You're using the wrong drivers is your problem.

 

[Phipli]

Radius PrecisionColor Pro 24AC

This isn't technically what the card is. It is an Apple Display Card 24AC, manufactured by Radius.

Physically yes, it is a PrecisionColor Pro 24X with a different ROM fitted, but... It is an Apple Display Card 24AC in this form.

It is possible to convert them into a 24X, but despite what LEM says, I don't believe Radius ever sold their own version of this card, they've likely just got confused by the Radius markings on the board and ROM. The only thing that says Apple is the sticker on the back.

 

[pfuentes69]

Good find. A very nice card.

The 1.1 ROM is the "Apple" ROM and works with just about anything, 68k and PPC. Version 1.0 was internal only, so they're all 1.1.

This card is an Apple card and doesn't use QuickColor. It uses the Apple driver. See attached. You're using the wrong drivers is your problem.

Fantastic! This really helps.

I was mostly basing my assumptions on https://lowendmac.com/1994/macintosh-display-card-24ac/ where it says "This is the same card (or very nearly the same card) as the Radius PrecisionColor Pro 24AC.", and in the pages to download RadiusWare (https://www.macintoshrepository.org/34144-radius-video-card-drivers) mention explicitly the Apple Card, but it seems I was confused or the references were misleading...

I'll test your drivers this afternoon!
Thanks!

 

[Phipli]

I was mostly basing my assumptions on https://lowendmac.com/1994/macintosh-display-card-24ac/ where it says "This is the same card (or very nearly the same card) as the Radius PrecisionColor Pro 24AC."

Yeah, until someone shows me a photo of this mystery Radius version of the 24AC, I'm saying it is yet another LEM error. You'll find a lot on that site.

I'll test your drivers this afternoon!
Thanks!

If I remember, it integrates with the monitors control panel? So you'll find most of the settings there. I forget if there is a control panel at all.

 

[Phipli]

This might be of interest, if it doesn't say an OS, it is 7.5.*, if it says "NA" it is not accelerated. The 24AC should match the performance of the 24X. I don't seem to have tested the 24AC with the stock IIci processor in that list.

Edit - I did test it, 24AC scored 44.7 (% of a Quadra 700) on a 25MHz IIci and 7.6.1

Help for a nubus Radius PrecisionColor Pro 24X ROM/firmware upgrade

I just bought this card on eBay. (pictured) I was curious if anybody could tell me if it was a 24XK or a Pro 24XK? Also, what is the purpose of the jumper? Thanks so much!

68kmla.org

 

[pfuentes69]

What is interesting in your list is that the card is not so fast compared to the built-in video in the IIci, and even is slower is the acceleration is turned off.
I made some benchmarks before installing the card, so let's see how it goes.

 

[Phipli]

What is interesting in your list is that the card is not so fast compared to the built-in video in the IIci, and even is slower is the acceleration is turned off.
I made some benchmarks before installing the card, so let's see how it goes.

People have a under appreciation of the performance of built in video.

Nubus cards are very limited by the speed of Nubus and so can't transfer information quickly between the host and card. This makes them very fast at repetitive tasks that require minimal data (a fill, or moving/copying a block of pixels), but worse than built in for something that transfers a lot of arbitary pixels like Doom or a QuickTime video.

Where they shine is that onboard video can't do high resolutions or 24bit colour (or 16bit).

This card does out perform the stock video overall though, and benefits from processor upgrades, especially a PowerPC upgrade.

My best score was my IIci running Mac OS 8.5.1 with a 66MHz PowerPC upgrade card. 8.5.1 has more PowerPC code in the graphics routines it seems.

 

[joshc]

The main benefit of these cards is to drive higher resolution / secondary displays rather than as something that is overly better than built-in video. For the systems with built-in video, people would usually buy a NuBus card if they wanted to drive another display.

 

[Phipli]

The main benefit of these cards is to drive higher resolution / secondary displays rather than as something that is overly better than built-in video. For the systems with built-in video, people would usually buy a NuBus card if they wanted to drive another display.

I just edited in about high Res 24bit the moment you posted

For dual screen only though, I'd have gone for a cheaper card than this. As a kid (although out of date) I had a IIci with an regular unaccelerated 8•24 (an upgraded 4•8 actually, but same difference) for a second monitor. It was great because I could switch it to 24bit to preview stuff. I used onboard video for my main display though, because even with both set to 8bit, onboard was way faster.

 

[pfuentes69]

Out of curiosity... where is published this Apple driver you posted above?
Before opening this I checked for alternate drivers from Apple and I couldn't find any...

 

[Phipli]

Out of curiosity... where is published this Apple driver you posted above?
Before opening this I checked for alternate drivers from Apple and I couldn't find any...

It has fallen off the internet, Apple used to host it on their website until a few years ago.

Now you have to use the way back machine archive of the Apple site.

I play with these cards and similar one a lot, so I happened to have it saved on my phone.

Is it not in Macintosh Garden?

 

[Phipli]

Here is the archive :

Index of /Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/Display-Peripheral/Older_Displays

 

[pfuentes69]

Is it not in Macintosh Garden?

Indeed, yes... looking for it again I just found it... https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/apple-software-upgrades-cd-rom-july-1997

 

[Phipli]

Indeed, yes... looking for it again I just found it... https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/apple-software-upgrades-cd-rom-july-1997

If that is the CD I'm think of, sadly someone has destroyed all the resource forks on it. Some files, including this driver, have survived, but there is a lot of unique files on that CD that have been corrupted.

Alternatively, I might be thinking of another CD that has the 24AC driver on it

 

[pfuentes69]

If I remember, it integrates with the monitors control panel? So you'll find most of the settings there. I forget if there is a control panel at all.

Tested it with the right drivers and now it works as expected. Thanks again!

So the new settings seems just an option that (I guess) is to enable/disable the acceleration...

 

[Phipli]

Tested it with the right drivers and now it works as expected. Thanks again!

So the new settings seems just an option that (I guess) is to enable/disable the acceleration...
View attachment 67856

That's right

If you run a benchmark before and after switching it you should see the difference.

Remember it runs fastest in 8bit mode, so I only tend to switch up to 24bit when I'm doing things that need it.