IIci issues

[Lateralus]

I have a Mac IIci that I picked up online well over a year ago. It was filthy, and at the time I didn't have the necessary equipment to test it, so the first thing I did upon receiving it was throughly clean it and put it away.

This past weekend, I decided to give her a go. But I seem to be having a few problems.

Upon powering up, I get video (through a NuBus Radius card) and moving the mouse moves the cursor. But the system doesn't want to boot.

Here are the symptoms;

1) No chime; and I've swapped in a few different internal speakers.

2) The machine does not seem to want to recognize either a System 7.5.5 boot floppy or disk 1 of the 19 disk System 7.5.3 installation set; I've swapped in several different drives.

3) There's no ROM SIMM installed, and I don't have one lying around. Not sure how critical this is to the operation of the machine?

4) The sound chip area of the board is covered in some sort of goo...

I have no hard drive with a IIci-bootable OS installed on it now. And apparently the 80MB drive that came in the IIci is dead because the IIci wouldn't boot from it and my LC III/Drive Setup wont recognize it.

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Unknown_K]

Leaking capacitors I guess. Wash the motherboard (remove ram etc) with soap and water and let it air dry a few days. Then see if it works.

 

[Dennis Nedry]

1) No chime; and I've swapped in a few different internal speakers.

Yes, probably a couple of bad capacitors. I had a IIci with no sound and it fixed it when I replaced these. It's not too hard to fix.

2) The machine does not seem to want to recognize either a System 7.5.5 boot floppy or disk 1 of the 19 disk System 7.5.3 installation set; I've swapped in several different drives.

The particular disk you're using probably doesn't work or isn't the right one for a IIci. There are some disk images online you can download and try.

3) There's no ROM SIMM installed, and I don't have one lying around. Not sure how critical this is to the operation of the machine?

The IIci usually does not have a ROM SIMM. This slot is meant to override the built-in ROM if you want to do that for some reason.

4) The sound chip area of the board is covered in some sort of goo...

Well then certainly the sound problem is because of bad capacitors. This is very common.

I have no hard drive with a IIci-bootable OS installed on it now. And apparently the 80MB drive that came in the IIci is dead because the IIci wouldn't boot from it and my LC III/Drive Setup wont recognize it.

It may work if you just format it and reinstall. If it doesn't spin, just take it out and twist it around in your hand vigorously to break it free. This happens sometimes when drives have sat for a VERY long time. If that's the case, it may boot up and everything once you get it spinning.

 

[LCGuy]

I have no hard drive with a IIci-bootable OS installed on it now. And apparently the 80MB drive that came in the IIci is dead because the IIci wouldn't boot from it and my LC III/Drive Setup wont recognize it.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Just a thought - you say in your sig that you have an LC III. An LC III will run any version of Mac OS between 7.1 and 7.6.1, which will also run on a IIci, provided you have at least 4 megs of RAM. (7.6.1 will boot in 4 megs with a minimum set of extensions, or better yet, no extensions) Worth trying at least, anyway, provided you don't mind popping open the LC III to borrow its HDD.

 

[Lateralus]

Yes, probably a couple of bad capacitors. I had a IIci with no sound and it fixed it when I replaced these. It's not too hard to fix.

Good to know. Not sure I'll bother replacing them though.

The particular disk you're using probably doesn't work or isn't the right one for a IIci. There are some disk images online you can download and try.

Neither disk is particular. One is a general System 7.5 boot floppy for 68k machines, the other is simply disk 1 of the System 7.5 install from Apple's site. I've had the disks for years and have used them in a number of 68k machines, including the LC III.

The IIci usually does not have a ROM SIMM. This slot is meant to override the built-in ROM if you want to do that for some reason.

Good.

It may work if you just format it and reinstall. If it doesn't spin, just take it out and twist it around in your hand vigorously to break it free. This happens sometimes when drives have sat for a VERY long time. If that's the case, it may boot up and everything once you get it spinning.

As I said, I've already tried it in my LC III when booting it with said boot floppy. Drive Setup wont recognize anything on the SCSI bus.

 

[Lateralus]

Just a thought - you say in your sig that you have an LC III. An LC III will run any version of Mac OS between 7.1 and 7.6.1, which will also run on a IIci, provided you have at least 4 megs of RAM. (7.6.1 will boot in 4 megs with a minimum set of extensions, or better yet, no extensions) Worth trying at least, anyway, provided you don't mind popping open the LC III to borrow its HDD.

I'm in the midst of a SCSI drought at the moment. The only working SCSI drve I have at the moment is a 320MB drive that I'm having to swap between the 6115, IIci and LC III. Even my 9600's 73GB drive hasn't arrived yet.

And even though I've got this one drive, it's blank until my 7.6.1 installation CD arrives sometime this week.

 

[equill]

... There's no ROM SIMM installed, and I don't have one lying around. Not sure how critical this is to the operation of the machine? ...

Because no ROM SIMM was ever made for the IIci, the on-board ROM must be selected with a jumper at W1. However, without it the IIci behaves like a kerbstone. You write that you are getting raster and mouse tracking, which are both well down the road after successful POST, although still in the 'hands' of Start Manager in ROM.

In such circumstances as you describe, no chime indicates bad audio—not necessarily the speaker—and it reads as if the caps in the output or the vicinity thereof have messily yielded up the spirit. Other large smoothing capacitors under the PSU may well have done likewise. But it is perfectly possible that a defunct PRAM battery is advising the system that the sound-level setting is zero. Given a valid startup volume the next signposts on the way should have been Happy Mac (found valid boot blocks on a startup volume), splash screen (the blocks pointed to a valid System Folder) and Desktop (the System and Finder got it all together).

Your immediate need may be a complete and thorough board wash, but if removing the goo clears the misbehaviour, there is no alternative to total replacement of the electrolytic caps to avoid recurrence of trouble. Then only will you be in an assured position to consider such nuances as booting.

de

 

[Lateralus]

My 7.6.1 retail CD finally arrived. So I installed it on my only SCSI hard drive with my LC III and then put the drive in the IIci. The IIci does take to it and boots, with no problems whatsoever once booted.

But in addition to the leaking around the sound chips noted above, the same leaking is going on in the area under the power supply. And I've finally confirmed that the machine's floppy bus is fragged; it wont recognize a newly formatted disk in a verified-working drive. It doesn't even try to read anything in the floppy drive - no noise whatsoever.

And my NuBus graphics cards all exhibit odd behavior unless I push or pull them to either side with some force while installed and running.

Me thinks this IIc is more trouble than it's worth.

 

[equill]

The choice is yours, of course, but it were a pity to pass up a smart performer because it came to you bedraggled and abused, whether that was by time or mishandling. IIci MLBs are not often offered for sale, so the cure for the MLB's woes has always to be TLC, elbow-grease and replacement of components. If the PSU is working correctly, you have a real find. It would be a shame to pass up an 030 that can use 128MB of RAM as well as 7.6.1. Apart from the compactness of the SE/30, there's not much that the IIci cannot do better, especially with its NuBus slots and colour-video.

A IIci with a DayStar PowerCache (33, 40 or 50MHz 030), Turbo 040 (25, 33 or 40MHz) or PowerPC 601 (66, 80 or 100MHz) is a real performer. The cards are plug'n'play (need no adapter) in the IIci's PDS (cache) slot. Even with none of those, at 25MHz it is a good performer with its native 030.

Besides, you're a soldier in the 68k MLA, no?

de

 

[slomacuser]

I have IIci motherboard with 32 MB RAM installed, NuBUS video card PSU etc ... I will shipp it abroad

 

[Lateralus]

The choice is yours, of course, but it were a pity to pass up a smart performer because it came to you bedraggled and abused, whether that was by time or mishandling. IIci MLBs are not often offered for sale, so the cure for the MLB's woes has always to be TLC, elbow-grease and replacement of components. If the PSU is working correctly, you have a real find. It would be a shame to pass up an 030 that can use 128MB of RAM as well as 7.6.1. Apart from the compactness of the SE/30, there's not much that the IIci cannot do better, especially with its NuBus slots and colour-video.
A IIci with a DayStar PowerCache (33, 40 or 50MHz 030), Turbo 040 (25, 33 or 40MHz) or PowerPC 601 (66, 80 or 100MHz) is a real performer. The cards are plug'n'play (need no adapter) in the IIci's PDS (cache) slot. Even with none of those, at 25MHz it is a good performer with its native 030.

Besides, you're a soldier in the 68k MLA, no?

de

Well, feel free to tell me how to fix a bad floppy bus, no sound, and really wonky NuBus aside from replacing the entire logic board and I'll consider it.

 

[Lateralus]

I have IIci motherboard with 32 MB RAM installed, NuBUS video card PSU etc ... I will shipp it abroad

Thanks. I appreciate the offer. But I'm not sure I could stomach the shipping costs.

 

[trag]

Well, feel free to tell me how to fix a bad floppy bus, no sound, and really wonky NuBus aside from replacing the entire logic board and I'll consider it.

It is a multi-step process with no guarantee of success, but my experience has been encouraging. First, examine the board carefully and identify where the goo is present. Second, desolder all the old electrolytic capacitors. Third thoroughly clean the board. Various methods have been suggested/recommended. Personally, I like to use flux remover and a nylon toothbrush, followed by 91% isopropyl alcohol and a toothbrush followed by a distilled water rinse. However, the dishwasher method seems to work pretty well.

Fourth, replace the capacitors with new ones.

Fifth, examine the board carefully and probably under magnification. Some kind of poking tool such as a dental pick is helpful and a continuity meter (ohmmeter) is pretty much a necessity. You are looking for areas where the goo from the capacitors corroded traces and vias on the circuit board and pins and solder on the various components. Concentrate your examination in the areas where the goo was found and where the malfunctioning circuity is. You'll probably find some devoured bits which can be bypassed with a bit of wire wrap.

Back around '95 my IIci just quit booting up. The above plus bypassing a dissolved via with wire fixed it at a time when a IICI was worth close to $1000.

 

[Dennis Nedry]

You have a IIci that BOOTS. I think it's worth fixing a few issues it might have.

I would remove all the electrolytic capacitors from the logic board, clean up the mess, and replace them. This will most likely fix your sound issue and might even fix your floppy issues. (Not sure on that one though.)

 

[Lateralus]

There's only so much I can do w/o a soldering iron.

 

[Dennis Nedry]

Well then that's a perfect reason to get one!

 

[IIsi]

I have a IIci logic board I don't use if you're interested. I am in Boston, MA. I'd ship it for $20 total.

 

[KC13]

A IIci with a Turbo 040 (25, 33 or 40MHz) is a real performer.

Yes it is! [] ]'>

 

[Charlieman]

Because no ROM SIMM was ever made for the IIci, the on-board ROM must be selected with a jumper at W1.

Apart from the IIci ROM SIMM made by Gamba and Trag a few years ago...