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Howdy! So I have this old Lisa 2/5....

stepleton

Well-known member
It looks like "conductive/capacitive" text was meant to be a link?

Anyway, since the keyboard is a capacitative keyboard, I'm not sure you want a material that's conductive on its surface, since I don't think you want to short the pads? Although if you are talking about the conductive foam that they pack ICs in, it may not be conductive enough to matter. The easiest way will be just to try it---attach a bit of foam to the end of a pen and use it as a stylus on the bare PCB. I actually wound up using this sort of arrangement to type the 24-byte BLU bootstrap program into Service Mode a few years back :lisa2:  

For me, the hardest part wasn't finding materials and laminating them together. Instead, it was the tedious work of pounding out all of those darn little pads, and I think you have to deal with that no matter what kind of foam you use. Now, maybe my punch wasn't the best. I was using a mallet, too---an arbor press or something similar might have been a lot easier!

(For what it's worth, I wound up using a sandwich of metallised mylar film with the nonconductive side out, some kind of HO model railroad trackbed I found recommended on a forum somewhere, and a polystyrene sheet from an art store, all bonded with 3M Super 77. Everything went together in minutes, and I left the sandwich under a heavy book for a day or two to cure. After that---quality time with the mallet and punch. I did two keyboards this way...)

I'll give my usual warning about these keyboards---be very careful about the plastic clip on the caps-lock key. If you take it off, there's a chance that a tiny pin and spring in the locking mechanism will come flying out, and you will be lucky if you ever find those again.

Good luck!

 
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MOS8_030

Well-known member
It looks like "conductive/capacitive" text was meant to be a link?

Anyway, since the keyboard is a capacitative keyboard, I'm not sure you want a material that's conductive on its surface, since I don't think you want to short the pads? Although if you are talking about the conductive foam that they pack ICs in, it may not be conductive enough to matter. The easiest way will be just to try it---attach a bit of foam to the end of a pen and use it as a stylus on the bare PCB. I actually wound up using this sort of arrangement to type the 24-byte BLU bootstrap program into Service Mode a few years back :lisa2:

Good luck!
No, I didn't mean that to be a link that's just underlined. In hindsight I can see how that could be misleading. (Pity I can't edit that post now.)

Anyway, yes, the conductive foam they use with electronic components.

Exactly, it would have to be conductive enough but not too conductive.

I had the same thought, maybe just to test a piece although I assume if conductive foam alone were an option someone smarter than me would have done it and documented it before now. [:)]

 

gilles

Well-known member
the material should not be conductive on surface because some pads have a very thin track in the middle that must not be short (otherwise there are unexpected results like random keypress, I had this problem with my 1st version of aluminium+tape pads that were still conductive on the edge).

While searching I found some good candidates in the kitchen for the capacitive pads. the foam is a windows insulation product. I kept the original rigid discs of the top and just glued my new pads with a thin layer of glue.

It's better to test each pad before gluing (3 of my pads were not working initially, probably because the capacitive layer had some folding marks) 

 

MOS8_030

Well-known member
Thanks, yeah I found that post too. I should probably just go ahead and do it.

Maybe after I fix the Fat Mac.

 

MOS8_030

Well-known member
So after doing some more reading I think I've come to the conclusion that with the ROMs that are in my Lisa it does require an 800k floppy drive.

Which could explain why the 400K floppy drive tries to work but doesn't quite make it..

As I've mentioned before I'm pretty sure this system was cobbled together and whoever worked on it may have been mixing-and-matching until they got a "working" system.

At the very least installing an 800K floppy drive shouldn't cause any issues.

I also found this floppy disk tonight that I didn't know I had. It didn't come with the Lisa when I got it, I don't remember where it came from!

I'm hoping this might have the software on it I need to talk to the Sun20 HD that spins up but does nothing.

macworks_xl_disk.jpg

 
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MOS8_030

Well-known member
Ah, ok. I see that this is just one of at least two disks needed. But the images are available online. Of course.

The deeper I go...

 

mactjaap

Well-known member
This is the second disk. I can send you the two images of the disks I have. You can boot your Lisa with these two. If the hard disk is broken you have to losen the cable.  

Did you try the BLU boot disk?

http://sigmasevensystems.com/BLU

 
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MOS8_030

Well-known member
Thank you for the info and the offer, I may take you up on it.

I need to get the floppy drive working before I can do anything else with this Lisa.

I'm working on getting an 800K drive to the replace the 400K in the system.

After that maybe I can see if the Sun20 HD is still working. It spins up and may just need an OS loaded on it.

 

mactjaap

Well-known member
I have 4 disks fitting to the Macintosh XL.

- MacWorks XL - the start disk to change you Lisa into a Macintosh

- MacWorks XL System Disk - the Macintosh OS ( I have this disk double)

- MacPaint - Macintosh System Disk with MacPaint on it

IMG_2461.jpg

IMG_2462.jpg

 
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gilles

Well-known member
it seems there is a 800k floppy (but maybe faulty) on ebay. I also have one (from an incomplete MacII I think) but untested and shipping will be far too expensive. Maybe a floppy emu would be a better option if you want to test many OS? you will also need the correct 2732 (io)rom (keep or dump your 800k rom first...)

 

MOS8_030

Well-known member
it seems there is a 800k floppy (but maybe faulty) on ebay.
Yeah, I was bidding on that but of course I got sniped literally at the last second. And it went pretty cheap too.

That pissed me off so much that I went back out to the garage and searched until I found that last box of Mac stuff I knew was somewhere.

And sure enough, in that box was an 800K floppy drive that I just knew I had! :D

Also in that box were some 604 processor cards, some L2 cache cards, a ZIF carrier card, a Daystar 601 upgrade card, some video cards, and some stuff for Portables.

So I'm sorting through that stuff and I'm a very happy camper and tomorrow I shall approach the Lisa again.

 

mactjaap

Well-known member
I’m using now the FlopyEmu. Absolutely a nice device in situations like this. 

Hope you get the drive working on your Lisa!

 

MOS8_030

Well-known member
Bah, turns out the 800K floppy drive I have is missing these two springs....for some reason.

I can probably make it work for testing but not as a permanent replacement.

This is turning into more of a hassle than I anticipated.

Yes, that Floppy EMU looks like a very cool, very handy tool.

Unfortunately I'm not planning on working on enough of these old Macs to justify the expense.

floppy.jpg

 

MOS8_030

Well-known member
Well, finally got back to this machine today.

I installed an 800K floppy drive in the system and was able to format and mount 400 and 800K disks! Yay.

However, it was having issues reading other disks and reading & writing data.

But these could be drive/disk issues.

To be fair, some of the disks I was using are pushing 30 years old and none of them are under 20..

And I don't know how many miles the drive has on it.

Tomorrow I'll try a different floppy drive, now that I have extras.

So at least as a proof of concept this LisaXL can use an 800K floppy drive! :lisa2:

Now, to figure out how to mount it. It's a bit thinner than the 400K model.

 
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