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Help!! Radius Thunder IV GX 1360 issues

adh1197

Member
Hi,

I just today received a Radius Thunder IV GX 1360 card. I have installed the card and am seeing strange behavior. As I have never used one of these cards before I am not sure if this is normal, if the card requires configuration or if the card is defective.

Upon system start-up, my display shows the radius logo twice along with a large checkerboard pattern down the center of the screen, almost like a column. The checkerboards are not consistent and towards the top random bits of pixels show--again in a non consistent pattern. Several blotches are also shown within the checkerboard. During the boot, init parade and eventual desktop display the image never changes from the described image. On one boot, my screen showed a very large checkerboard pattern which would change in size when I moved the mouse around. Again the init parade and desktop were never displayed.

I have tried re-seating the card, tried different nubus slots, tried removing all cards except the 1360, tried holding down the T key at start-up, etc. I have also tried the card in my second NuBus mac and observed the same results. I have also tried this card with different displays including one of my Apple multiple scans and observed the same results.

When I tried the T key, the display did cycle through different resolutions but still had the same symptoms. The card is identified on the NuBus interface properly as Radius's control panel shows the card as being installed. Finally I am running System 7.1.2 on both of my NuBus macs and have confirmed that there are no bent pins or other visual problems on the card.

I don't know where to go from here and would appreciate any help anyone could provide. Thanks.

-Andy

 

adh1197

Member
The version of ROM is 1.2.3. I have also tried taking the card back to factory settings, but this does not solve the problem.

 

adh1197

Member
I cannot. I don't have the installation media for OS 7.6.1 or 8. However I doubt it is OS related as the problem occurs before the OS loads into memory. Also I know these cards were compatible with System 7.1.

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Does the Mac boot up with the card installed and MoBo Video driving a second monitor?

Does the Mac boot with only that really nice Radius card installed?

If so, take a screen shot in either case, let's see if the issue is in the frame buffer(?) or the card's output over the cable.

What kind of VRAM is on the card? Got Pics?

 

adh1197

Member
1. Does the Mac boot up with the card installed and MoBo Video driving a second monitor?
2. Does the Mac boot with only that really nice Radius card installed?

3. If so, take a screen shot in either case, let's see if the issue is in the frame buffer(?) or the card's output over the cable.

4. What kind of VRAM is on the card? Got Pics?
On point 1, Yes it does.

On point 2, Yes it does.

On point 3, The screen captures in both instances came back displaying the GUI perfectly.

On point 4, The VRAM is soldered directly to the card. I can provide a picture of the card, but I am unsure which chips represent the VRAM.

1 other thing I noticed, during a subsequent boot one of the icons from the init parade displayed itself in the upper center of the screen (along with all sorts of other strange patterns.) In addition to the placement, the image was drawn as black and white. It appears that the card is not displaying color as well.

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
On point 3, The screen captures in both instances came back displaying the GUI perfectly.
That's good, we know that most of the card is likely functional.

Is the ScreenShot for the Radius Card in B&W or in Color and what resolution is displayed?

Do you have any documentation? In which slot are you installing the card?

I ran into some strange NuBus Voodoo when Installing multiple VidCards for the Full House Series. Try installing it in slot one, the furthest to the left when facing the front of the computer.

On point 4, The VRAM is soldered directly to the card. I can provide a picture of the card, but I am unsure which chips represent the VRAM.
They're soldered on in droves on a card like that, if they're little flat rectangular SMT Packages they're harder to replace. If they're vertical elongated boxes in a thru-hole package with the pins in a Z pattern, they're far easier to replace.

1 other thing I noticed, during a subsequent boot one of the icons from the init parade displayed itself in the upper center of the screen (along with all sorts of other strange patterns.) In addition to the placement, the image was drawn as black and white. It appears that the card is not displaying color as well.
Sounds like there might be something wrong with the driver/address mapping scheme, dunno I'm not that kind of expert.

If the any VidCard isn't set up properly in the PRAM (are your PRAM Batteries Good?) it'll almost always default to 640 x 480 x 1bit .

Have you set up the card in the Monitors Control Panel or is there another one for the card loaded by the Radius Software?

I'm not entirely certain where we're going in this troubleshooting session yet, just trying to nail down the basic steps of the process and config of the card.system.

Pics of the card at high resolution would be GREAT and some pics of the screen artifacts would help just as much.

Checkerboard sounds like simasimac, which might mean bad caps on the Card, Vertical lines/artifacts might be something like timing crystals or VRAM . . .

. . . dunno, let's see where it goes. [;)] ]'>

 

adh1197

Member
Is the ScreenShot for the Radius Card in B&W or in Color and what resolution is displayed?
It is a color image. Resolution is something other than 640x480. Not sure which resolution however.

Do you have any documentation? In which slot are you installing the card?
No documentation and I have tried all NuBus slots in both of my Macs with the same results.

On point 4, The VRAM is soldered directly to the card. I can provide a picture of the card, but I am unsure which chips represent the VRAM.
They're soldered on in droves on a card like that, if they're little flat rectangular SMT Packages they're harder to replace. If they're vertical elongated boxes in a thru-hole package with the pins in a Z pattern, they're far easier to replace.
The chips that I think are the RAM look like they would be impossible to replace, at least by me. They don't appear to be thru-hole setups. Please refer to pictures:

1360_back_a.JPG

My PRAM batteries are good. I have loaded the Radius software but it appears that the card is configured through the Monitors control panel. Even taking this into consideration I am reluctant to view this as a configuration problem due to the images I am seeing on the display directly at startup, see below. (The images are from 2 separate start-ups.)

screen_at_post_2.JPG

screen_at_post.JPG

1360_front_a.JPG

 

Unknown_K

Well-known member
http://www.vintagemacworld.com/radius/thuniv.html

"Q: Why does my Thunder IV GX card fail the Apple diagnostics hardware test program?

A: This program is not designed for testing any products other than those manufactured by Apple, therefore it will always report that the VRAM is defective on your card. This test always fails on third party graphics cards even if the card is working perfectly. If there really was a VRAM problem with your card, you would see some visible sign of the problem on the screen. VRAM failures generally result in one or more vertical lines of garbage or distortion being displayed on the screen. If you reduce the resolution of the image or reduce the bit depth from 24-bit to 8-bit and see some change to these lines, the VRAM probably is defective and the board should be replaced. If you don't see any problems with vertical lines on the screen in any bit depth or resolution, then your card is working correctly."

You seem to have the latest ROM installed, the T cycles resolution so the card is functional, I didn't see the DSP card attached which would have issues if VM was enabled, not much else I can say.

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
YUCK!!!!!!!!!!!! That is kinda nasty! :O

The two Radius Logos displayed at startup make me think the vertical sync timing may be way off and you're getting the equivalent of an intermittent, sorta stable digital version of screen roll on an analog TV. A bad vertical sync rate crystal can, or ALL the crystal cans ought to be fairly easily replaced as a first step. See what the electron pushers around here think of that WAG.

Such might also explain some of the other artifacts as well . . .

. . . or not. :-/

edit: looked more closely, I only see the one crystal can. Whatcha' think gang?

 

adh1197

Member
YUCK!!!!!!!!!!!! That is kinda nasty! :O
That was pretty much my reaction when I hooked the thing up for the first time. :)

The two Radius Logos displayed at startup make me think the vertical sync timing may be way off and you're getting the equivalent of an intermittent, sorta stable digital version of screen roll on an analog TV. A bad vertical sync rate crystal can, or ALL the crystal cans ought to be fairly easily replaced as a first step. See what the electron pushers around here think of that WAG.
Such might also explain some of the other artifacts as well . . .

. . . or not. :-/
Do you feel that a bad crystal would also be responsible for the monochrome display?

Also, one time I did actually get to see my mouse pointer move, although the screen looked like the second picture I posted above, and the pointer was only contained to about 1/64th of the screen with lots of distortion.

I don't know that much about hardware so I don't know which component is the rate crystal. My question to you on this is in your opinion how much would a new rate crystal cost?

Edit: Just as an FYI but my 1360 does have the DSP card, I just removed it so that I could take the pictures. Also, when I removed the card this last time I noticed a faint rattle coming from somewhere on the card. I can't pinpoint where and I confirmed that the various screws and supports are not loose.

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Not a clue on either tech question . . .

. . . the crystal can is the metal lozenge shaped component with the oscillation speed rating printed on top . . .

. . . one of the electron pushers might know or have a better (informed) diagnosis.

 
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