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Help needed with PM 6100 floppy drive

powermax

Well-known member
Hello crews,

yesterday I turned on my Power Mac 6100 and noticed that the floppy drive has suddenly stopped working. Last month, it was fully functional - I could read, write and format floppies just fine.

I've disassembled the computer, reseat the cables and checked for the presence of all required voltages (+5V, +12V and -12V). Anything looks good.

The drive in question is Sony MP-F75W-12G (Apple-Nr. MFD-75W-01G). When I insert a disk the motor spins on for 2 seconds. Then it stops and nothing more happens. It looks like the drive won't be recognized by the computer.

Can you give me a hint on how to fix/to diagnose this failure?

Thanks in advance!

Cheers

Max

 

Alex

Well-known member
I know this might be a lame question but can it boot from floppy or attempt to startup from a floppy?

 

powermax

Well-known member
I know this might be a lame question but can it boot from floppy or attempt to startup from a floppy?
I've just tried to power on the machine with the SCSI cable disconnected. I hear the startup bong, then the gray screen appears. After a while, the floppy disk with a blinking question mark in the middle is displayed.

The floppy drive isn't operational. This indicates an issue either with the drive or - the worst case - with the logic board.

I have no clue how to proceed.

 

Unknown_K

Well-known member
6100's should have manual inject drives and those are much easier to find replacements for then the older 68k auto inject drives.

 

powermax

Well-known member
When you did Alex's suggested test, did you have a startup disk in the floppy drive?
Yes, I did. The head doesn't even move abit. Is there any easy-to-do test to ensure that the floppy disk controller (SWIM III) is operational?

Anyway, I'll try to clean and to re-grease as you suggested. I suspect a failure of an electronic component, not sure which one...

 

powermax

Well-known member
6100's should have manual inject drives and those are much easier to find replacements for then the older 68k auto inject drives.
My PM 6100 has an auto-eject one. It's Sony MFD-75W-012G, known as Superdrive. See the attached picture.

Moreover, it doesn't reveal any mechanical problem. It has simply stopped working...


 
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Unknown_K

Well-known member
All apple floppy drives will auto eject when commanded to (hence no eject button), but most of the drives on the 68k series machines will auto inject (suck the floppy out of your hands when inserted partially into the drive). The difference is easy to see in the computer case. Auto Inject drives have the emergency eject hole to the right of the drive, manual inject has the hole on the bottom.

 

powermax

Well-known member
All apple floppy drives will auto eject when commanded to (hence no eject button), but most of the drives on the 68k series machines will auto inject (suck the floppy out of your hands when inserted partially into the drive). The difference is easy to see in the computer case. Auto Inject drives have the emergency eject hole to the right of the drive, manual inject has the hole on the bottom.
Sorry for overlooking the difference between "inject" and "eject". The emergency eject hole is located to the right of the drive.

 

Unknown_K

Well-known member
You sure? Ever single one I seen was on the bottom, is there a black dust flap where the floppy goes in on the drive?

 

powermax

Well-known member
Please find the picture of the front cover attached. The floppy drive slot is to the right, right above the power button.


 
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Unknown_K

Well-known member
Looks like Apple reused a Quadra 660av case top, a very early 6100. Looks like auto inject then.

What goes bad with these drives is the spring that holds the top head down can get damaged, the flat cable to the drive head can get ripped, the drive head itself can get ripped off, the grease lubricant gets hard and the disk won't inject or eject all the way, drive motor might be going bad. See any cracked boards, loose wires, or anything that looks odd?

I have not heard of capacitors being an issue with those drives, but they were on IBM PS/2 era floppies.

 

powermax

Well-known member
Looks like Apple reused a Quadra 660av case top, a very early 6100. Looks like auto inject then.
Yes, it's one of the very early 6100, 60 MHz, from the beginning of 1994.

See any cracked boards, loose wires, or anything that looks odd?

Nothing. As I said earlier, this drive was in the working condition two months ago.

I have not heard of capacitors being an issue with those drives

There is a high probability that the electrolytic caps installed in this device, namely high-quality japanese capacitors by Nippon Chemicon, are still good.

I've noticed the following behavior:

With disk removed, when I press down the disk inject microswitch with a screwdriver the disk motor spins for 3-4 seconds and then stops.

When I insert a disk the disk motor spins on and then immediately stops.

Could it be an issue with the disk motor? Can it be disassembled and lubricated?

 

Alex

Well-known member
If it appears completely dead, try another drive on the machine to understand if another drive works. If you don't have another drive, I would take the affected drive completely apart right down to the little gears and motor. It isn't difficult to do. I believe I came across some youtube video showing a take apart, just go slow and carefully, keep all parts in safe place while taking apart and shoot some photos.

What I would do then is inspect the gears just connected to the motor and my suspicion in the little motor, it might be dead.

If another drive is handy and it works it means your mac is driving that floppy correctly and delivering power etc.

I believe it might be the motor that died.

I'm sorry that this is the best I can do for you but you will need to isolate the part that is dead. If you know more than me, you could try to find out how to deliver power to the motor to see if it runs. There are two motors, one for ejecting the floppy disc and a second for spinning the disc.

I hope this helps in some way.

Kind regards

—Alex

 

powermax

Well-known member
Thank you very much for all your great advices! They helped a lot!

If it appears completely dead, try another drive on the machine to understand if another drive works. If you don't have another drive, I would take the affected drive completely apart right down to the little gears and motor. It isn't difficult to do. I believe I came across some youtube video showing a take apart, just go slow and carefully, keep all parts in safe place while taking apart and shoot some photos.
That's exactly that what I'm going to do next. Although I suspect a failure of an electronic component I'd like to get sure that the mechanical part is good.

I believe it might be the motor that died.

There are two motors, one for ejecting the floppy disc and a second for spinning the disc.
There are three motors actually:

  1. one for ejecting the floppy
  2. one for moving the heads
  3. one for spinning the disk
The 1st one is not important for the time being.

I've checked the 2nd motor thoroughly. It's just a bipolar Minebea 08BJ-H031-41 stepping motor with 4 wires. Each of the two windings has a resistance of approx. 90 Ohms. I was able to manually drive this motor away from the zero track sensor by alternately attaching a 9V battery to the windings and switching the polarity.

After that, I reinstall the drive in the computer, powered it on and pressed on the inject microswitch with a screwdriver. The disk motor started and the head quickly moved to the track 0. So the stepping motor can be considered good.

The spindle motor moving the disk cannot be checked without the complex electronics attached to it (it's PWM driven). I assume it's good, too, because it actually spindles when a disk is inserted or the "disk loaded" microswitch is pressed down (with a screwdriver, for example).

I'll receive another Power Macintosh next week and test the drive with it. For the moment being, I'm thinking about building a test suite based on Arduino or similar. The idea is to power the drive and to send some basic commands to it. Fortunately, the pinout of the IC20 connector is known. Control signals from SWIM III chip are partially documented, too. BMOW, who built the FloppyEmu, knows a lot about the signals involved.

The only problem is that the drive control logic isn't documented. There is no publicly available schematics for it. But there are schematics for earlier models available so the logic can be compared. There are only three ICs on this board: the main controller IC (CXA1503Q, probably a custom controller chip), the spindle motor controller (CX20174, another custom Sony chip) and the stepping motor driver IC (Toshiba TA7774P). The latter is well documented.

I'll try to document my tickling as detailed as possible so someone else (curious like me) could play with these drives as well.

Many thanks!

Cheers

PowerMax

 

Alex

Well-known member
This might be a good resource as per compatibility, especially as I assume you will try the drive from the other mac you are expecting any day now.

Interchangeability and Compatibility of Apple Macintosh 1.4 MB “SuperDrive” Floppy Drives

http://www.siber-sonic.com/mac/superfloppy.html

The referred to page is here as a PDF incase.

The link above refers to another resource which is on the way back machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20060104190220/http://home.socal.rr.com/fuweb/floppysite/index.html

Hope these are relevant.

Kind regards

—Alex

PS sorry that the PDF shows up twice, I am unable to remove it.

Macintosh 1.4 MB SuperDrive Floppy Drives.pdf

Macintosh 1.4 MB SuperDrive Floppy Drives.pdf

 

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powermax

Well-known member
Hi folks,

and now comes the funny part [ :) ]

Today I received another PowerMac 6100 logic board to play with. I attached my supposedly faulty floppy drive to it and ...... trara! The drive works! That's good news! > :(

The funniest part about it is that the drive works after it has been completely disassembled and then reassembled. No alignment or tuning was ever necessary! Well, I put some markings on the stepper motor and the track 0 sensor before disassembling so the unit could be easily reassembled.

And now the bad news > :(  The old board must have an electrical problem somewhere. It could be some corrosion in the IDC 20 connector or in the traces. It could be also a bad SWIM III chip. I hope that's not the case because otherwise I'll have to replace it...

 
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mactjaap

Well-known member
I had a similar thing today. A perfect working disk drive refused to boot a disk on an other Mac. Smoke came out of.....my ears! Why? It always worked. Then I switched cables. I now used the redone it had original attached. Not the yellow one of the recieving Mac. And Lo and Behold!

It worked!

 
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