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Garrett's Finds

ScutBoy

Well-known member
Put the bag on a short cycle in the washing machine, very light soap. It can take it. Take off the strap. Don't put it in the dryer!

If you have an appropriately sized cardboard box put it inside as it air dries. It will help it keep it's shape. Take the box out after a day or so, and let it completely dry inside. Using a fan or two helps a lot.

As far as refurbishing the floppy, it's as @LaPorta says - it's much easier than it looks. Have a pair of fine pointed tweezers to release/replace the little springs on the sides, it makes it easier. If I get on a roll with a stack of drives, I can do one from start to finish in about 15-20 minutes as long as it's not super gunky. Mostly they are just full of dust.

 

Garrett

Well-known member
I'll try to tackle cleaning and lubricating the disk drives in December when I have a lot of down time. I'm just not the most mechanically inclined, and I have a habit of messing something up or skipping over a crucial step. But I'll give it a try and follow along with the video. After all, I'm really trying to learn the ropes of the hobby.

As for the bag, should I be able to wash it in the "high efficiency" front-load machines in our building, with a little bit of detergent? I'm guessing just put it on the "normal" setting for 30 minutes with cold water? Thankfully it appears I have a box that it *should* fit into - I can check later. Should giving it a wash take some of the cigarette/nicotine odor out?

A user on Reddit recently suggested using an "Air Sponge" to get the nicotine smell out, which may work for the bag if washing doesn't work. It'd be great if that worked on the computer and peripherals, too - so I don't have to completely disassemble it to clean the plastics and/or replace parts. But, as previously mentioned, I don't think I'd go that far on the SE - at least not right now.

 

ScutBoy

Well-known member
Put the box inside the case after you wash it. That’s to help it keep it’s shape as it dries. 
 

I used the short cycle on my washer. Not sure how long that was. It doesn’t have to be long. 

 

Juror22

Well-known member
I used the short cycle on my washer. Not sure how long that was. It doesn’t have to be long. 
I would never have thought of putting one of those bags in the washer, and its so obvious!

It has some scratches and the pervious owner marked their name into both the bucket and top of the keyboard. What is the best method for cleaning the plastics and getting rid of the permanent marker without damaging the plastic?
Alcohol with white cloth/paper towels works well as a first line tool for getting out permanent marker, but sometimes you have to go farther.  I had a SCSI to ethernet box that was terribly, marked up.  I had to use acetone mixed with alcohol to get that out, but a few words of caution:

1) If you do go that route, mix it with the smallest amount of acetone that will do the job, mix it well in a glass/metal or ceramic cup, and test the mixture in an inconspicuous area, or on a test piece, if you have one.

2) Acetone WILL dissolve plastic, so do not use it undiluted and be careful to only use it sparingly.

3) DO NOT use straight acetone.

This article outlines several options, always try the least dangerous first. https://www.wikihow.life/Remove-Permanent-Marker-from-Plastics

 

Garrett

Well-known member
The latest addition to my vintage computer collection isn't a computer itself, but rather an accessory that will make using these machines easier and more enjoyable. I finally purchased a FloppyEmu for use with both the Classic and SE. Currently I've been loading floppy disk images, but I'd like to eventually get the HD-20 emulation running so I can have a virtual "hard drive" for the SE.

21973337-F3DA-4912-99C4-F830DA20D4EA.JPG

The FloppyEmu works well on both machines, though (as expected) the SE doesn't like it when you try to load a high-density 1.4MB disk image - which is why I'm hoping to get the HD-20 emulation mode working. I was able to get The Print Shop, Shufflepuck, Ford Simulator, and Buick Dimensions 1989 working on the SE. (The SE almost blew out my eardrums when the Buick Dimensions jingle played... even on the 1 setting the headphone output is extremely hot.) All of the software worked fine on the Classic.

Text files written in TeachText transfer and open fine on a modern Mac, as expected. I was able to write an "HTML" document in TeachText, transfer it to my modern Mac, give it a HTML extension and load it in a browser just fine. I was also able to open an RTF document created in Word 4.0 in TextEdit, but unfortunately nothing will open the native Word 4.0 document files. I'm still looking for a way to open and convert those MacPaint files to a more modern format so I can upload them to the web.


I was kinda bummed out to learn the ConcertWare MIDI Player won't work. On both the Classic and Mini vMac, ConcertWare opens fine - but will not allow you to open a MIDI file. It opens the "Open" dialog box, but .mid files are invisible and can't be selected. It was my goal to get MIDI playback working on at least the Classic, but that may not be possible - at least not without making the jump to System 7 and QuickTime (if running QuickTime is even possible on a Classic with a 68000 and 4MB of memory.)

Speaking of which, is it even possible to get music (such as MP3 or WAV files) converted to a format that these old Macs can play, despite being really low-quality and having lots of dither? Or are my goals just too far out there?

Unfortunately, due to a huge paper coming due soon and some other end-of-semester things on my plate, I wasn't able to play with the FloppyEmu and Macs as much as I wanted to. I probably spent way too much time tinkering with it today after getting it all put together. Hopefully next week...

 
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cheesestraws

Well-known member
I finally purchased a FloppyEmu for use with both the Classic and SE.


Good decision!  They're really useful, especially if you have multiple machines.

Text files written in TeachText transfer and open fine on a modern Mac, as expected.


Grab yourself a copy of BBEdit if you're going to be doing this regularly.  It is a lovely editor.

I'm still looking for a way to open and convert those MacPaint files to a more modern format so I can upload them to the web.


I use GraphicConverter (on a modern mac) to do that, but I believe other options are available... there was a thread about it recently, but I cannot remember what other tools were recommended.

It opens the "Open" dialog box, but .mid files are invisible and can't be selected.


The files probably have the wrong file type set?  Generally, classic MacOS doesn't pay any attention to file extensions at all.  So you might need to change the file type to MIDI explicitly using ResEdit or one of the many, many PD tools for the job.  I don't know what type that would be off the top of my head, though...

 

Garrett

Well-known member
I actually use BBEdit on my modern Mac and have thought about possibly putting BBEdit on the compact Macs, but I'm not sure. I don't think I'll be writing HTML code on them very often, leaving that up to my modern MacBook Pro. However, I'm currently working on writing content for a section of my website I'm revamping shortly using Word 4.0 and converting it to RTF files when completed. I may even write my blog post discussing the FloppyEmu using the Classic and Word 4.0 or the SE and TeachText. (I may use TeachText on the SE because I feel the SE hasn't got much use. Unfortunately, with just 1 MB of memory and only being able to read double-density/800k disk images, I don't think I can load Word or even MacWrite 2 on it.)

In regards to the MacPaint Files and converting them: I was looking at the thread you're referencing lately. It appears GraphicConverter costs $40, which is kind of steep personally to just transfer MacPaint files to a JPG or something similar. PICTure This was another solution offered, but according to @benanderson89it doesn't work very well. It's not the end of the world.

In re ConcertWare: I'll post a picture sometime tonight or this weekend when I have some more free time to do so, but on the Classic and Mini vMac it would show the folders but none of the contents - which I'm assuming means it is expecting a certain file type. I have two .mid files in both folders for testing, but neither show up. Earlier this summer I found out a key combination which "forces" the Finder/open dialog box to show all files. But even then I don't think it would open, and I don't remember the key combination.

The Macintosh Garden page for ConcertWare says that it was tested and works on an SE FDHD. A comment seemed to echo that, pointing out that you can have the software play the MIDI file without the need for any external MIDI devices. (Which is what I want.) So I'm guessing it's a problem on my end/user error and not a problem with the software itself.

Is there any other MIDI playback programs for System 6? I know with System 7 your options are more plentiful, but I have no plans to stick System 7 on either of these machines.

 

cheesestraws

Well-known member
Sorry for double post, I hit 'Submit' before I meant to.

In re ConcertWare: I'll post a picture sometime tonight or this weekend when I have some more free time to do so, but on the Classic and Mini vMac it would show the folders but none of the contents - which I'm assuming means it is expecting a certain file type. I have two .mid files in both folders for testing, but neither show up. Earlier this summer I found out a key combination which "forces" the Finder/open dialog box to show all files. But even then I don't think it would open, and I don't remember the key combination.


Finding the expected file type is pretty straightforward as a spelunking exercise with ResEdit :) .  Have you done that before / would you like pointers?

 

CC_333

Well-known member
is it even possible to get music (such as MP3 or WAV files) converted to a format that these old Macs can play, despite being really low-quality and having lots of dither? Or are my goals just too far out there?
No, they're not, but MP3s won't play very well, if at all, so you'd have to convert to WAV (or, more specifically, AIFF, as that's the format used on early Macintoshes;  it's more or less equivalent to standard WAV files (as seen primarily on contemporary PCs), but there are a few minor differences because Apple wanted to be different (Macs and PCs had since standardized on PC-style WAV sometime in the late 90s (and then of course MP3s, once the average Mac or PC became fast enough to decode them efficiently), so this difference has become moot)).

So, basically, when you do encode your music into that format, you want to match the capabilities of the Classic's and SE's sound hardware, which are as follows:

  • Sample rate: 22,050 kHz
  • Bit depth: 8-bit
  • Channels: 1 (Mono)

It won't sound great compared to a modern system, but that's all the Compacts' audio hardware is capable of.

c

 
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Garrett

Well-known member
Sorry for double post, I hit 'Submit' before I meant to.

Finding the expected file type is pretty straightforward as a spelunking exercise with ResEdit :) .  Have you done that before / would you like pointers?
I've never used ResEdit, but having to go a roundabout way is probably a red flag that modern .mid files will not work with ConcertWare MIDI Player. The MIDI files play just fine under Arnold's MIDI Player, but that requires System 7 and QuickTime.

No, they're not, but MP3s won't play very well, if at all, so you'd have to convert to WAV (or, more specifically, AIFF, as that's the format used on early Macintoshes;  it's more or less equivalent to standard WAV files (as seen primarily on contemporary PCs), but there are a few minor differences because Apple wanted to be different (Macs and PCs had since standardized on PC-style WAV sometime in the late 90s (and then of course MP3s, once the average Mac or PC became fast enough to decode them efficiently), so this difference has become moot)).

So, basically, when you do encode your music into that format, you want to match the capabilities of the Classic's and SE's sound hardware, which are as follows:

  • Sample rate: 22,050 kHz
  • Bit depth: 8-bit
  • Channels: 1 (Mono)

It won't sound great compared to a modern system, but that's all the Compacts' audio hardware is capable of.

c
It's one of those things that I want to do just to be able to do it, there's no reason behind it and it doesn't need to sound great. (In fact, I know it's not going to sound great.) I'm assuming you'd mix the audio file to the specs (22kHz, 8-bit depth, mono) and export as an AIFF in a modern DAW such as Audacity or Adobe Audition. How do you play it on the Mac? What software is used in System 6 to open such a file, or do you still need System 7 and something like QuickTime?

 

CC_333

Well-known member
@Garrett Yes, you'd take your audio file of choice, mix it down to mono, and encode it to 22kHz AIFF. 

Ideally, you'd use an older DAW to do it (Cool Edit Pro would work, for example), but anything that can encode to AIFF should work well enough. 

What System 6-compatible software can play it once on the Mac?  I'm not sure.  Maybe try browsing Macintosh Garden?

EDIT:  just did a little checking, and it looks like Quicktime 1.0 may run on System 6.  Not sure if it'll rum on a 68000, though. 

c

 
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CC_333

Well-known member
OK!  I have spent some time browsing Macintosh Garden,?and I think I may have figured out something you could try!

First, download this and use it to convert a WAV file to a System 7 Sound file: https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/balthazar

And then download this and use it to play the resulting snd file on System 6: https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/7th-symphony

It's a bit kludgy, but I think it might work. 

I will try it myself in mini vMac when I get access to my computer later this evening. 

c

 

Garrett

Well-known member
Unfortunately, it didn't work - at least in Basilisk II and Mini vMac. In Basilisk, 7th Symphony gave me an error when trying to play the converted (3 second) clip. In Mini vMac, System 6 couldn't even open the weird file formats 7th Symphony is in. So I guess that's the end of the road... oh well, it's not the biggest deal. I still can't figure out ConcertWare and I guess that, too, is the end of the road. Thanks for your suggestions - it's greatly appreciated.

In other audio-related shenanigans, I noticed the audio output on my 1988 Macintosh SE seems to be really hot, as previously mentioned. Even on the 1 setting it seems to play really loud. I also found out (although earlier... had this happen on my Classic with a game, I believe Crystal Quest) that some software seems to "override" the volume setting in the Control Panel. Both with Crystal Quest that one time and tonight with another program, I had the computer muted and it still played sound and seemed to offer no adjustments for volume.

Tonight I had a little more time to play around with the FloppyEmu, mostly with the SE since the Classic is the one usually getting all the love. (But at least the Classic doesn't look like a block of cheddar and smell like a cigarette factory.) I played around with some of the more obscure games (at least obscure to me) already pre-loaded on the FloppyEmu, such as MacMan. MacMan is a pretty nice spin on the PacMan concept with some interesting nods to Apple's competitors at the time like IBM and AT&T. I also played around in MacDraw and The Print Shop. I created a PICT file in MacDraw but it doesn't render correctly on modern systems.

My next goal is to try to get HD-20 emulation up and running on the FloppyEmu. I kinda want to play with PageMaker or Illustrator but don't know how those will run on 68000 machines with 1-2 MB of memory. (I still haven't been successful at installing the additional 2MB SIMMs in the Classic. I'm starting to wonder if those SIMMs are even good.)

 

CC_333

Well-known member
Hmm, I'm sorry it didn't work. 

I don't think it's the end of the road, but it does seem that perhaps, barring any new information, it's more trouble than it's worth. 

Are you able/willing to run 7 on one of your compacts?  It's slower, but it's also potentially much more useful, as you can then use things like Quicktime (provided your version of choice supports 68000-based Macs).

I'll look into it some more and see what I can come up with. 

c

 

Garrett

Well-known member
It's not really that big of a deal. As for System 7, I've thought about it but I'm hesitant to. The Classic is still running its factory installation of 6.0.7 and I'm not really wanting to upgrade from that because I don't want to get rid of the volume. I could probably run System 7 on my SE, but I only have enough memory to bring it to 3 MB, and it lacks an internal hard drive. (Though with the addition of the FloppyEmu and HD-20 support, I'm guessing that's not a huge issue.) Even then, I believe QuickTime requires at least a 68020, which I don't have.

 

Garrett

Well-known member
January has been a superb month for my collection, and it's not over. Tomorrow I'm making the ~60-mile journey over into Kansas to pick up a PowerBook Duo 270c, details to come tomorrow night when I return. Earlier this month, I acquired an Apple ImageWriter II for my Macintosh Classic/SE to share.

However, today's "haul" includes something sentimental to me and something new. I haven't wrote a post on my blog for this yet, so y'all are getting the "sneak peek." (After posting this, I'm going to have to run to class. Post will be up later tonight, and I'll either edit this post or reply with a separate comment with a link to my post. You can also follow me on Twitter to see updates with my collection - including a sneak peak to the 270c - and my blog.)

Anyways, here we go. A lot of Twitter embeds, as I don't want to consume too much server space here.

I'm going to start this first item off with a little backstory. As a junior in high school (in the middle of my first Apple craze, around the time I joined 68kMLA) I toured my current university. As we were walking through the library, I looked through the frosted glass windows of one of the offices to spot a computer in the shape of a compact Mac. I never saw that machine again, until late October 2019 when it was located in a display case. I posted a picture of it on my personal Twitter.


Fast forward to last week, when I reached out to a librarian about who owned this computer. She connected me with the owner, who seems to be an interesting guy as his computer programming skills all started with a Commodore 64. He used to run the computer commons in the library. I told him about my collection, and he told me about the two vintage Macs he owned - both of which he bought new back in graduate school in Texas. Later in the course of our discussions, he randomly asked me if I'd be interested in adding two computers to my collection. I said sure.

Yesterday he sent me an email telling me they were ready to pick up. I was excited and bewildered at the same time, but nonetheless went to pick them up. I had to wait to this morning to pick them up, waking up at 8:30 a.m. (The only time I've ever been excited to wake up early.)


After getting back home, I was able to look closer at the machines. While the Macintosh SE isn't anything new to me (I already own one...) the System Saver interested me. On the back, there's an expansion port of some kind. The PowerBook 165 looks to be an excellent condition and appears to be rarely used, as even the port door is still intact. Unfortunately, he didn't have the power supply for the PB so I'm not able to test it until I find one.


Back to the SE, which was the computer that is sentimental to me. I took off the System Saver and programmer's switch to pop the bucket off and have a look inside before plugging it in. There's definitely an expansion card of some sort, which prevented me from pulling the logic board out. I have big, fat hands and this machine has a hard drive. I wasn't able to reach in to disconnect the main power supply connector, anyways. Any ideas on how to make that easier? I was able to get everything else unplugged.


Trusting that nothing was damaged, I plugged the SE and the System Saver in for testing. The System Saver works and while the fan was noisy at the beginning, it quoted down to the low hum that is only slightly louder than the fan in my SE.


Which brings me to the final part. This thing must have an upgraded processor, and it must be something powerful. This thing FLIES. It has a password protection screen, which I was able to bypass by disabling extensions during startup. The Maxtor hard drive, while noisy, still seems to work perfectly. This thing is much faster than the sluggish 68000 I know and love. And it has way more memory than the max 4 MB you'd find in the stock SE... it appears to have 16 MB installed. Lots of extensions installed. I'm super curious now to find out what processor/expansion port this thing has installed.


I'm calling this thing the "SuperSE." It's a 1988 just like my other SE, and was also made in Fremont, California. (Though it appears this SE was made in March/April 1988, while my other SE was made in May '88.)

Now my vintage Mac collection is at 4 machines... and hopefully will be at 5 tomorrow. This time last year, I had 0 vintage machines in my collection.

 

mattsoft

Well-known member
congratulations! it's so much fun finding hidden surprises like an accelerator card in an SE. 

 

LaPorta

Well-known member
These are some pretty awesome finds! I know the excitement, especially making sure they run and keeping them going.

 

olePigeon

Well-known member
I don't know why, but I just like seeing actual work computers with 20 millions extension icons.  It's so mysterious. :)

 
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