Fitting a SCSI2SD in a 68k Mac

[Skate323k137]

Ah, good to hear.  Do keep us posted with the PCI SCSI implementation performance. 

Received a 40 MB ATTO scsi PCI card. Had no issues getting it going at all; plug and play.

Testing so far, I'm just timing reboots. This limited testing has demonstrated that the main improvement really is the upgrade from SCSISD v5 to v6. For both v5 and v6 devices, I set SCSI2, parity, and unit attention.

Complete reboot times, identical mac/system folder, OS 9.1:

(I count this as time from clicking "reboot" until being at a functional and loaded desktop)

SCSI2SD V5

Internal Bus: 2:08

SCSI PCI Bus: 2:12 

(so, testing inconclusive and/or the bottleneck is the v5 device).

-

SCSI2SD V6

Internal Bus: 1:45

SCSI PCI Bus: 1:40

I did these a few times. The 'winner' is V6 on the PCI card, but the PCI card affects it only by a slim (not statistically notable) margin. It did seem to fly through loading extensions on the PCI card.

Do you know good ways for me to benchmark read/write speed on OS9? 

 

[AlpineRaven]

Received a 40 MB ATTO scsi PCI card. Had no issues getting it going at all; plug and play.

Testing so far, I'm just timing reboots. This limited testing has demonstrated that the main improvement really is the upgrade from SCSISD v5 to v6. For both v5 and v6 devices, I set SCSI2, parity, and unit attention.

Complete reboot times, identical mac/system folder, OS 9.1:

(I count this as time from clicking "reboot" until being at a functional and loaded desktop)

SCSI2SD V5

Internal Bus: 2:08

SCSI PCI Bus: 2:12 

(so, testing inconclusive and/or the bottleneck is the v5 device).

-

SCSI2SD V6

Internal Bus: 1:45

SCSI PCI Bus: 1:40

I did these a few times. The 'winner' is V6 on the PCI card, but the PCI card affects it only by a slim (not statistically notable) margin. It did seem to fly through loading extensions on the PCI card.

Do you know good ways for me to benchmark read/write speed on OS9? 

Best way is to use norton system info and do disk benchmark there

Cheers

AP

 

[Skate323k137]

Perfect, thanks for that info.

Nothing groundbreaking here. The discs basically tied between internal bus and SCSI PCI card. Using overall norton scores you wouldn't notice a difference.

The only notable differences;

the v5 saw a 5% improvement in both random read and write on the PCI card. Any sustained read/writes of length were the same speed regardless of internal or PCI SCSI bus.

the v6, in contrast, saw a very small loss in random read/write (2% or less upon retesting). This might be a fair trade in practice, because in all the testing, the only noted advantage anywhere was a 15% increase in sustained read speed for the v6 on the PCI bus. The norton test for 256k sequential read went from 7843 K/s to 9055 K/sec.  These were the 2 fastest speeds in all of the benchmarking, belonging to the internal bus and SCSI card respectively.

So for long [sequential] reads it seems the internal bus will cap out before a PCI card. It's nothing I would go out of my way to do, but it seems to save a few seconds on reboots or loading large files, so I may as well leave it this way.

 

[Tempest]

Ok I got my SCSI2SD today so I decided to hook it up and see if I could get my Macintosh Classic to recognize it.  It came with a 4GB card.  So far I've:

1. I updated the firmware

2. Left the general settings as is

3. Changed the device 1 settings to the recommended settings in the first post (2GB partition)

4. Set the SCSI ID to 2 so I could still boot from my main hard drive

5. Put the SCSI2SD into an external HD enclosure and hooked it via the port in the back

6. Ran the patched version of Apples HD Setup tool 7.3.5

The tool saw the SCSI2SD at ID 2 and said that it wasn't initialized.  So I clicked Initialize and the little hourglass type symbol appeared and the amber light on the SCSI2SD lit up.  I thought all was well and good, but it's been at the Initialize and Verify step for over an hour now.  I'm not sure what's going on.

 

[dougg3]

I thought all was well and good, but it's been at the Initialize and Verify step for over an hour now.  I'm not sure what's going on.

It's doing a low-level format, which takes a while. There is actually a way to skip the low-level formatting in newer versions of Apple HD SC Setup including 7.3.5. If you hold down the command key when you press Initialize, it skips the low-level formatting and does a quick format instead.

 

[Skate323k137]

I agree with the above post. Also try a new sd card if at all possible. I spent days chasing ghosts with a bad card in a good config, because it basically works until you do a long write. If the led is stuck on and not rapidly pulsing, suspect a bad card. 

 

[Tempest]

It finally finished.  I think it took about an hour and a half or so.

 

[Tempest]

So it made a tiny little partition like the setup instructions said it would, but I couldn't remove it because it said it was in use.  I think this is because I had already copied some files over it (I forgot to check the partition size).  If I reboot can I delete that partition or do I have to reinitialize the drive?

 

[Skate323k137]

If you can boot from any other system disk you can work with the drive. You will probably want to just re-do the whole disk with the partition(s) you want. If you want to run different versions of system software, you can always make a couple partitions to make it easier. 

No need to long format though. You should be able to redo it in moments. 

 

[AlpineRaven]

Attempted to connect SCSI2SD on Macintosh Portable - via external SCSI Port - have I missed something?
 

It is working without issues (even boots up) in PowerBook 3400, 8600, LC475, LC2, PBG3 PDQ - All macs is done via external as SCSI2SD is in external case.

What happens? If I connect SCSI2SD and turn it on - you'll see ? floppy icon, as soon you switch it off and disconnect SCSI2SD then it'll boot - would it be the settings or something Ive missed?

Cheers

AP

 

[MOS8_030]

Assuming it's not a SCSI ID conflict, what did you use to format the SD card and what version of Mac OS are you trying to boot and how large is the partition/drive?

 

[AlpineRaven]

Assuming it's not a SCSI ID conflict, what did you use to format the SD card and what version of Mac OS are you trying to boot and how large is the partition/drive?

That what I though too - its set as ID 1, formatted with Apple HD SC as it'll be standard format, it as pre-installed system 7.1 on it which the Portable would be able to boot off it.

Im using v5 board which it should have active terminator?

Cheers

AP

 

[Skate323k137]

V5 will terminate as long as the resistor packs are present. V6 terminates with software setting/option. 

 

[MOS8_030]

That what I though too - its set as ID 1, formatted with Apple HD SC as it'll be standard format, it as pre-installed system 7.1 on it which the Portable would be able to boot off it.

Im using v5 board which it should have active terminator?

Cheers

AP

That should do it.

 

[AlpineRaven]

Does external SCSI2SD need to be powered for Portable? Still cannot get it working.
Cheers

AP

 

[MOS8_030]

Does external SCSI2SD need to be powered for Portable? Still cannot get it working.
Cheers

AP

I would assume so, power being at a premium on that system.

 

[AlpineRaven]

Confirmed working - Kingston Class 10 128gb microSD working in SCSI2SD v5

116gb is used for software to install and yes its full. I also have 700mb on SCSI ID 1 (116gb is on SCSI ID 2) that will be used between Macs to Macs as external drive. Keen on obtaining 256gb mSD, but I don't want to gamble if it doesn't work as I haven't had any confirmation that it works or not.

Cheers

AP

 

[bilbomacuser]

I’m planning to get a SCSI2SD to use with an LCII. Is it better to get v5 or v6? V5 looks adequate but maybe it will lose support sooner?  I still have my working 80mb hard drive. Can I just copy everything over to the SD card from that (ie if I connect the SD externally)?

how does the scsi2sd performance compare to the original hard drives?  Does it boot much quicker, like using a modern SSD?

 

[Skate323k137]

For 68k era macs v5 should be fine but v6 is definitely an improvement in powermacs. I put up a thread with benchmarks in my 7500. 

 

[AlpineRaven]

I’m planning to get a SCSI2SD to use with an LCII. Is it better to get v5 or v6? V5 looks adequate but maybe it will lose support sooner?  I still have my working 80mb hard drive. Can I just copy everything over to the SD card from that (ie if I connect the SD externally)?

how does the scsi2sd performance compare to the original hard drives?  Does it boot much quicker, like using a modern SSD?

I really wanted to get v6 myself - due the price that I couldnt justify and I ended up v5 board, since Ive been using it and I really wished I bit the bullet and paid a bit more to get V6 board.

My whole purpose to use SCSI2SD is to use between early 68k macs to PowerPC with SCSI. So if you have more than 1 Mac - then get v6.
Cheers

AP