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Fitting a SCSI2SD in a 68k Mac

MOS8_030

Well-known member
Ok so after messing around this morning it looks like the largest Plus-bootable drive you can create on the SCSI2SD with any version of Apple HD SC Setup is 40mb. :(

At least without hacking/patching Apple HD SC Setup. This is because Apple HD SC Setup checks the SCSI2SD volume to see if it's an Apple HD, same as Drive Setup does.

(See Clopes66 earlier post.)

So ignore most of that list of drives I posted earlier, the only "generic" drives that are supported by Apple HD SC Setup are the same 40mb Seagate drives in Clopes66's post.

And you must use Apple HD SC Setup to initialize the drive or else the Plus will not boot from it.

Using Drive Setup seems to be the the most common mistake everyone, myself included, has been making.

The other clue I found here: http://www.codesrc.com/mediawiki/index.php/Mac_Plus

I have a 16gb SD card in the SCSi2SD set up as three drives. A 40mb for the Plus boot drive, a 1 gig for Plus storage, and a 9 gig for other Macs & stuff.

(The Plus will mount all the drives but only "see" 1 gig of the 9 gig drive.)

Depending on the size of your SD card and preferences you can configure your SCSI2SD drives differently. (Note, I am using the new 4.8 firmware with a SCSI2SD v.5.)

The 40mb drive I initialized with Apple HD SC Setup. I tried the later 7.3.2 (I think that's right) version from the 7.5 install and it worked fine, which makes sense since 7.5 supports the Plus.

Then I installed 6.0.8 from scratch. (I only have 1 meg in the Plus at the moment, I'd rather run 7.1, you should be able to use any OS that supports the Plus.)

I used Drive Setup to initialize the other two drives.

So this setup worked for me. My Plus has the "v3" ROMs, I don't know if having the earlier Plus ROMs will make a difference.

So here are the settings I used for the SCSI2SD. At one point I added spaces in front of the "ST1917" product ID. I don't think that's necessary I just haven't changed it since it worked.

Make sure to check "Auto" for any drives after the first one before you save the settings or you'll get an error.

Anyway, hopes this helps some of you. :)

Plus_SCSI2SD_settings_1.jpg

Plus_SCSI2SD_settings_2.jpg

Plus_SCSI2SD_extra_drivesettings_1.jpg

Plus_SCSI2SD_extra_drivesettings_2.jpg

 
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Skate323k137

Well-known member
Good work

As a long shot... I assume you tried the patched HD SC setup that ignores the vendor list? Or will that not run on the plus?

 
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AlpineRaven

Well-known member
What is the largest SD Card I could use in SCSI2SD v5? 

I have 220gb of legacy software, my whole purpose of having SCSI2SD is to store all those software on it and be able to install on macs via external SCSI.

So, in theory - I was hoped to 4 partitions via SCSI2SD - 2gb (System 7.5.5 for earlier macs), 4gb (for Mac OS 8.6 for Power Macs) , 128gb and 128gb both for software.

Would that work?
Cheers

AP

 

MOS8_030

Well-known member
Good work

As a long shot... I assume you tried the patched HD SC setup that ignores the vendor list? Or will that not run on the plus?
No I did not. I only used the "stock" version. I didn't know there was a patched version of HD SC also. Durr.

Yes, that probably would work to create a larger volume. For now I'll let some else try it, I'm done messing with the Plus until I get more ram.

 

MOS8_030

Well-known member
What is the largest SD Card I could use in SCSI2SD v5? 

I have 220gb of legacy software, my whole purpose of having SCSI2SD is to store all those software on it and be able to install on macs via external SCSI.

So, in theory - I was hoped to 4 partitions via SCSI2SD - 2gb (System 7.5.5 for earlier macs), 4gb (for Mac OS 8.6 for Power Macs) , 128gb and 128gb both for software.

Would that work?
Cheers

AP
Specs I can find say this: Standard SDSC (1GB maximum size) SDHC, SDXC (up to 200GB)

 

Skate323k137

Well-known member
I've tested 64gb and 128gb cards on the v6 and v5 respectively. I haven't gone bigger than a 128.

Since the v5 stores config internally, and not in the sd card, if you plan on using it as an external drive, you could set up your scheme for 3 or 4 hard drives using scsi2sd util. Then just use macos to format one or multiple SD cards. It wouldn't be hot swppable (power off to change cards) but you would effectively have an external hdd where you can change out the platters (cards) so to speak. Whenever you put in a new sd card it will act like several new empty HDDs to be partitioned and used. Whenever you put (back) in a card you've used, it will have all your volumes and data as it was previously. 

Last but not least you can use scsi2sd-util to toggle different virtual drives off or on, as long as you don't change the starting block number or device size. Be sure to read your config and backup to xml (scsi2sd-util does this) if you plan on doing that. 

 
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MOS8_030

Well-known member
As a followup to my previous SCSI2SD/Mac Plus adventures, I can confirm that the patched version of Apple HD SC Setup works fine for creating larger Plus-bootable disks using the settings I detailed above.

Just fill in the vendor name with your favorite disk maker and anything for the product ID.

 

dochilli

Well-known member
I got a bootable SCSI2SD on a Mac Plus by MOS8_030s description. I could boot an OS 7.1 and an OS 6.0.8. I only was successful with the 20MB Seagate ST225N. My HD Setup program (V2.0, not patched) did not find other models. Perhaps there must be some spaces in the vendor and product ID?

But I have one problem left.

When I connect the SCSI2SD (ID3) with an HD20SC external HDD (with a 80MB Quanum, ID0) the booting works. But when I connect the SCSI2SD direct to the SCSI-port of the plus it does not boot. The same occurs, if I switch off the power of the HD20SC. There seems to be a problem with the power when the SCSI2SD is connected directly to the Mac Plus. The SCSI2SD is terminated.

Any ideas?

Martin

 

MOS8_030

Well-known member
Neat little box!

I would try applying some power to the SCSI2SD since I do not believe the Plus supplies termination power.

 

Skate323k137

Well-known member
I use that same enclosure for the virtual zip drive setup I described previously in the thread. It is handy, but the card is somewhat hard to change while the scsi2sd is in the case. A small cut in the case might make it easier to get adult sized fingers in there.

I ordered a PCI SCSI card, to see if the v6 scsi2sd can perform any better in my power macintosh 7500. I'm curious to see the result or improvement, if any, over the internal scsi bus. 

 

AlpineRaven

Well-known member
I use that same enclosure for the virtual zip drive setup I described previously in the thread. It is handy, but the card is somewhat hard to change while the scsi2sd is in the case. A small cut in the case might make it easier to get adult sized fingers in there.

I ordered a PCI SCSI card, to see if the v6 scsi2sd can perform any better in my power macintosh 7500. I'm curious to see the result or improvement, if any, over the internal scsi bus. 
It wont be much of improvement, correct me wrong it has internal 10mbs SCSI, the SCSI2SD v6 is also 10mbs as well?
Cheers

AP

 

Skate323k137

Well-known member
AP, You are most likely correct regarding speed. 

Things rarely run at their max, so I'm hoping a 40MB scsi card opens things up. If not I'm happy to spend 15 bucks documenting that it didn't help lol.

For no reason in particular I trust the scsi2sd to actually carry that speed more than the mac. I know for example the external bus is 5mb not 10 on the powermac. So I doubt the internal performance of the scsi bus and it may be a bottleneck. Like you say though probably not a big one given the scsi2sd max speed. 

 
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joethezombie

Well-known member
It will be interesting to see how the v6 performs in the 7500.

On a IIfx, I was receiving 1598 KB/sec on the v6, and 1200 KB/sec with the v5.

But, pop the v6 onto a Jackhammer, and I was getting 6054 KB/sec.

But VERY nice to have 0.0ms average seek time and 2.3ms average access time.

Note however, that there is a known issue with v6 and write performance. I've conversed a bit with Micheal, and he believes at writes after 65536 bytes, the SCSI2SD is falling back to single-sector transfers.  This will limit the sustained write speed, but only on files larger than 65536 bytes.  He's currently working the issue and hopes for a fix soon.

 

Skate323k137

Well-known member
The good news is the v6 runs great already on the internal bus. It's certainly acceptable. And writes are definitely faster than v5 in practice. However reads and boot time are about the same between the v5 and v6 in the same 7500.

 

dochilli

Well-known member
Here are some news for SCSI2SD and Mac Plus:

I used the description of MOS8_030. The vendor etc. were Seagate and ST225N. Device Size: 8 GB; HD SC Setup formated 20 MB. OS 6.0.8

Then I was able to format the 8 GB SD with Lido 7.56. I installed 4 Partitions (First 1 GB; 2-4: 2GB). Formatting and partitioning was done in Lido. Now I have 4 drives mounted and the plus booted from the first partition. For me Lido worked and produced a bootable SCSI2SD. When I tried this some weeks ago, it did not work. My SCSI2SD has firmware 4.8 (former was 4.7) and I use the newest software. I think the settings in the general settings tab are very important for creating bootable SCSI2SD for a Mac plus.

Martin

 
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