Emulate intel support on G4?

[netfreak]

I'm betting this is a no go since I haven't been able to find anything useful on google... Anything I can do to get a piece of software which is apparently Intel only (didn't error out during install, only when I try to run) to run on a G4?

 

[Quadraman]

I'm betting this is a no go since I haven't been able to find anything useful on google... Anything I can do to get a piece of software which is apparently Intel only (didn't error out during install, only when I try to run) to run on a G4?

Anything that allows you to emulate Intel on a G4 would likely be limited to DOS/Windows emulation. I haven't heard of anyone successfully running an Intel Mac app on a G4 or even of anyone trying. It's hard enough trying to emulate a machine that is slower than the one that the emulator is running on at an acceptable speed but the Intel Macs are so much faster and use hardware devices that didn't exist during the G4 era. It would be like trying to emulate a Quadra 840AV on an Apple II+.

 

[bhylak]

Try QEMU and there is another made by the Darwin team I can't seem to find.

 

[Anonymous Freak]

The only way I can even think of would be to run a PC hardware emulator like QEMU or Virtual PC, then run "Hackintosh" OS X inside that. It would be dog-slow, though. (Hrm... You'd be running OS X on real Apple hardware, and OS X Server is licensed to run inside a virtual machine... If you ran OS X Server inside Virtual PC, you wouldn't even be violating any licenses!)

 

[netfreak]

Hrm, I may need to consider a hackintosh...

 

[bhylak]

I remember when I first said those words...

 

[ppuskari]

Hmm, now that is interesting. I can use that tidbit at work. We are trying to find a way to test various mac browsers through the mac os's without having the extra equipment available. I know how to get this done, but I didn't know osx server was also licensed to be vm'ed. Which is VERY important to the company I work for. Gotta stay legal!

I will say though my 10.5.4 hacintosh is very nice. Took a while to configure and get right with the right video and memory, and ide driver setups, but once working it does everything I ask of it.

Now to vmware that sucker and use osx server in that would be something cool to try. I wonder how that would perform on my 4 box farm of Compaq Proliant 5000 servers? 4x PPRO 200mhz 1meg cache per chip, and 4gig of Ram per machine.. Probably dog slow, but hey, sounds like a good weekend project!

Thanks for the tip guys!

 

[Anonymous Freak]

Hmm, now that is interesting. I can use that tidbit at work. We are trying to find a way to test various mac browsers through the mac os's without having the extra equipment available. I know how to get this done, but I didn't know osx server was also licensed to be vm'ed. Which is VERY important to the company I work for. Gotta stay legal!
Now to vmware that sucker and use osx server in that would be something cool to try. I wonder how that would perform on my 4 box farm of Compaq Proliant 5000 servers? 4x PPRO 200mhz 1meg cache per chip, and 4gig of Ram per machine.. Probably dog slow, but hey, sounds like a good weekend project!

Sorry, no.

Even virtualized, OS X Server still requires that it is running on Apple hardware. It's just that you can now run multiple virtualized copies of OS X Server on one physical Mac/Xserve. (You also still need one license per installation, so a Mac Pro running five virtual machines would take six licenses; one for the host, five for the five guests.)

2. Permitted License Uses and Restrictions.

A. Mac OS X Server Software. Subject to the terms and conditions of this License, you are granted a limited non-exclusive license to install and use one copy of the Mac OS X Server software (the “Mac OS X Server Software”) on a single Apple-branded computer. You may also install and use other copies of Mac OS X Server Software on the same Apple-branded computer, provided that you acquire an individual and valid license from Apple for each of these other copies of Mac OS X Server Software. You agree not to install, use or run the Apple Software on any non-Applebranded computer, or to enable others to do so.

(emphasis mine)

 

[ppuskari]

Thanks Anon! Man too good to be true.. But I can definitely justify to the management to buy ONE Xserve and run multiple copies from with the proper licensing.

Still better than us NOT testing at all....

And the best part since it's rack mountable I can get it installed in my lab next to the other 104 load injectors. Going to be fun.

 

[ClassicHasClass]

I'm betting this is a no go since I haven't been able to find anything useful on google... Anything I can do to get a piece of software which is apparently Intel only (didn't error out during install, only when I try to run) to run on a G4?

Anything that allows you to emulate Intel on a G4 would likely be limited to DOS/Windows emulation. I haven't heard of anyone successfully running an Intel Mac app on a G4 or even of anyone trying. It's hard enough trying to emulate a machine that is slower than the one that the emulator is running on at an acceptable speed but the Intel Macs are so much faster and use hardware devices that didn't exist during the G4 era. It would be like trying to emulate a Quadra 840AV on an Apple II+.

A "Reverse Rosetta" would be an amusing thing. However, it would probably also be enormously impractical.

 

[Bunsen]

But I can definitely justify to the management to buy ONE Xserve and run multiple copies from with the proper licensing.

Consider also the new Mac Mini Server. Way cheaper, if your only requirement is testing. Or just a straight Mini.

Hm, I wonder if the "family pack" license would let you install on multiple VMs on the same hardware?

 

[Gorgonops]

Hm, I wonder if the "family pack" license would let you install on multiple VMs on the same hardware?

There's no such thing as a "family pack" license for OS X Server. Server has to be the OS *inside* the VM.

Given the cost of OS X Server licenses ($499 a pop) for something like testing web browsers you're almost certainly better off mounting a shelf in a data center rack, covering it with the cheapest Mac Minis you can buy ($599), and enabling VNC on them all than you are buying an Xserve+virtualizer+OS X Server licenses. Starting with the hardware, an 8-core Xserve with 24GB of RAM will put you $4600 bucks in the hole. VMware Fusion still doesn't seem to *explicitly* "support " OS X guests, so let's tack on $1250 for a Parallels Server license (which does explicitly support OS X Server guests.). Simple math at this point determines that you'll have to be able to run 58 simultaneous OS X Server guests to match the price-per-session of OS X minis. Certainly when you factor in the network ports and additional rack space/power for the minis it might change things somewhat, but since you're really *not* going to be able to run 58 sessions at once on a single Xserve the equation is still pretty bad. Might as well just buy a Mini for every developer and call it a day.

 

[ppuskari]

Gorgonops much thanks there. I think I'm going with the xserve and licenses after all. Get this - the simple reason is: .......

We are only allowed to place rack units in the data center I've tried micro-atx boxen clipped to the side of the racks behind panels and got whacked for that pretty hard. Still saved us like 80 grand in network simulation gear for that project though.

Gotta love it. BUT it's NOT my budget I'm playing with, so this is still going to be great. I get to spec, admin, and tell the testing groups how to do all this and they get to pay for it. The extra capacity I get to use for whatever.

Hmm, I might just have to use it as a glorified Jmeter box too or something for an alternate load generation platform as well. We are an HP shop and Performance Center OSX just isn't in the cards yet. OOH, but Win2k3 on the vm for a controller bank will work.

 

[Gorgonops]

We are only allowed to place rack units in the data center I've tried micro-atx boxen clipped to the side of the racks behind panels and got whacked for that pretty hard. Still saved us like 80 grand in network simulation gear for that project though.

Awesome.

You could always go to a surplus shop, buy some massive, chunky 4U server box (A Sun Enterprise 420 would do great), empty it out, and stuff it with about a dozen minis, fans, power strips, USB KVM, and an ethernet switch. Do a careful job and no one will be the wiser. ;^)

They also sell shelves specifically for rack-mounting Minis:

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Macessity/MX4/

http://www.mk1studio.com/www.mk1studio.com/UBL-MMR.html

That might get you into a negotiable "gray area", perhaps. The second shelf in particular looks pretty good, as it secures the components to some extent and provides spaces for the power supplies.

 

[Quadraman]

The only way I can even think of would be to run a PC hardware emulator like QEMU or Virtual PC, then run "Hackintosh" OS X inside that. It would be dog-slow, though. (Hrm... You'd be running OS X on real Apple hardware, and OS X Server is licensed to run inside a virtual machine... If you ran OS X Server inside Virtual PC, you wouldn't even be violating any licenses!)

Have you gotten QEMU running? The QEMU site says to use Q for PPC but the Q site hasn't been updated for a long time and I could never get it working.

http://www.kju-app.org/

That's the site for Q the PPC version of QEMU.

 

[ppuskari]

You know that might work.... I still have a few Proliant 5000 units. At least they are Compaq beige. They would fit right in at 7U in height, and once stripped are an incredible vastness of space.

The second link for the mac mini rackmount looks very good as well. That might be an option too!

I still like the option of the company dropping like 8 grand on my project though.

I'll let you all know what direction this goes when the decision is finally made above me.

 

[Bunsen]

We are trying to find a way to test various mac browsers through the mac os's without having the extra equipment available. I know how to get this done, but I didn't know osx server was also licensed to be vm'ed

Hm, I wonder if the "family pack" license would let you install on multiple VMs on the same hardware?

There's no such thing as a "family pack" license for OS X Server.

Wait: if this is all about testing OS X browsers, why do you need OS X Server at all?

As for rack options: a Mini is 2.0 x 6.5 x 6.5 inches according to everymac, which makes them inconveniently a smidge taller than 1U (1.75"), and inconveniently too wide to fit 3 across.

However, if you can mount them on their sides, you can probably fit 8 across in 4U and still have a bit of space between them for cooling. Heck, remove the lid and optical drive, that should help.

 

[Gorgonops]

Wait: if this is all about testing OS X browsers, why do you need OS X Server at all?

The issue is he wants to stay "legal" within the letter of the "law", and while OS X Server's license allows virtualization (on Apple hardware) OS X client's does *not*. Just like anything related to OS X on x86 there are ways to convince OS X client to run in a virtualizer (Both VmWare and Parallels apparently make token efforts to stop installing it that are easily overridden), but it's still against the license agreement. Besides, using the "Family Pack" license is forbidden in a business or commercial environment anyway:

The Family Pack Software License Agreement allows you to install and use one copy of the Apple software on up to a maximum of five (5) Apple-labeled computers at a time as long as those computers are located in the same household and used by persons who occupy that household. By "household" we mean a person or persons who share the same housing unit such as a home, apartment, mobile home, or condominium, including students who are primary residents of that household but reside at a separate on-campus location. This license does not extend to business or commercial users.

A superghetto trick for getting "multiple users" out of a single OS X client is to combine Fast User Switching with OSXVNC. I suspect that probably violates some aspect of Apple's licensing agreements as well, if only in spirit, but if you needed to do *basic* web browser functionality testing in a small group one racked Mini (Or one hidden in the bottom of a rack between the lowest server and the floor) would be all you needed. ;^)