Early System Software versions

[Dog Cow]

OK, I just checked. Should have done it before I posted. :undecided: Taliesin arrived in mid-1985 on the system update disk (Finder 4.1). Then it's mentioned in MacUser November 1985, in this context, "Another bonus is an interesting new pictorial font called Taliesin. Somewhat similar to Cairo..."

So it wasn't renamed Cairo, but I still think it was renamed earlier than System 6.

 

[Dog Cow]

Ok, here is a source for Taliesin rename: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.fonts/14TvQJby8fM/kI1B6w349vEJ

We need to check the dates on the Mac System disks to be sure.

 

[tanaquil]

OK, I just checked. Should have done it before I posted. :undecided: Taliesin arrived in mid-1985 on the system update disk (Finder 4.1). Then it's mentioned in MacUser November 1985, in this context, "Another bonus is an interesting new pictorial font called Taliesin. Somewhat similar to Cairo..."

So it wasn't renamed Cairo, but I still think it was renamed earlier than System 6.

That's certainly possible - I never got as far as tracing the disk on which Taliesin was first renamed. Another stage of research!

 

[Dog Cow]

FOUND IT! This was the source I couldn't remember, this is it: https://macgui.com/usenet/?group=14&id=977

and followup from Apple employee scott douglass: https://macgui.com/usenet/?group=14&id=1005#msg

Taliesin mentioned on new System/Finder disk, May 1985 -- this thread mentions Cairo with Taliesin; probably how I got them mixed up.

 

[tanaquil]

Nice sleuthing! I'll have to dig through my warren of system/app disks and see if the timeline matches up, but that certainly sounds like the horse's mouth.

 

[Rasmus]

Rasmus, you might be able to clear up a mystery for me.  Do you know what the original shipping Macintosh 128k came with?  I'm assuming it was what is variously called System 0.97/Finder 1.0.  I've been trying to get an unadulterated image for years.  The versions I keep finding work fine in an emulator, but show up with Venice as the system font instead of Chicago when running on a real 128k (check 2 different machines).  All of the marketing material of the era (reviews, pictures of Steve & Mac, etc.) seem to have the typical Chicago running as the system font.

On the images I've managed to find, the system files all seem to have been modified, so I suspect people were mucking with the fonts to fit more on the disk.  Oddly, the various Apple Developer legacy software CD/DVDs all seemed to omit this first OS.  Do you have/know what the appropriate versions, files sizes, and results would have been on that first version of the System Software?

Yes, "System 0.97" is System 1.0. Basically they weren't sure if it was going to be considered the final version or a demo version when they brought it to the factory at the manufacturing deadline, so it still had its beta number (hidden from most users, but they would have changed it if they had known for sure that it would be System 1.0). Jobs made the decision to not call it a demo only after production had begun. See Real Artists Ship.

I can definitely give you a good image of that and other things. I've already heard from tanaquil via email (see here for the address) and I'm happy to send you the same set of images when I get that together. It's going to take me a little while to get it done. I want to make sure they all work properly after all this time. You all are free to do whatever you like with them. I made them, but I have no claim to them. I'm hesitant to put them directly on my site, as explained above.

 

[Rasmus]

Here's what the Ke tour disk looks like. I have a bunch of early system disks but I have never looked at the contents of most of them.

View attachment 23378

That disk wasn't what we were talking about, but it does have an interesting story. It's one of only two disks that have Finder 5.2 on it -- the other one is version 1.0 of the Printer Installation disk (basically just an update for the LaserWriter). System 3.1 Finder 5.2 was supposed to be released along with the Mac 512Ke in February 1986, but there was a show-stopper bug in it, so the system disks were pulled at the last second and replaced with Mac Plus disks (System 3.0 Finder 5.1, released the previous month with the Mac Plus). The only survivor was the Guided Tour disk.

 

[tanaquil]

Neat, thanks for the background on the 512Ke Tour disk. As it happens I already have a copy of this particular disk, but I am happy to see photos of whatever. Eventually I'd like to pull this stuff into a more comprehensive write-up of what early System disks looked like and what was on them, but one thing at a time.

I spent a bunch of time today digging through my million and one boxes of Plus and SE documentation and found some fun stuff. Sometimes the most fun is not shopping ebay but shopping your own collection!

 

[MOS8_030]

That disk wasn't what we were talking about,

Yes, I knew that that's why I made sure to mention that it's the Ke Guided Tour disk, not the K.

Interesting story either way, I've never looked at the contents of this disk.

 

[tanaquil]

Yes, I knew that that's why I made sure to mention that it's the Ke Guided Tour disk, not the K.

Interesting story either way, I've never looked at the contents of this disk.

You should totally look at your early system disks sometime when you have a few free minutes. They will most likely not be "virgin" (unaltered), but I have seen the most hilarious mish-mish of renamed apps (MacPaint is "9" on one of my disks), saved user files ("Panda" pict), and god knows what else. It really was a different era back when people didn't lock their original disks the day they opened the box. I don't think anyone ever even dreamed of doing that for the first year or two.

 

[MOS8_030]

Hmm. I have at least a dozen early Mac OS/paint/macwrite and other Apple disks I've never looked at.

Several are still in the plastic boxes with the docs that came with the original Macs.

Perhaps I will take a look at some of them.

I do have a bunch of early Microsoft (Basic/Multiplan/Works/ etc.) that I have found some strange files on.

 

[Dog Cow]

It really was a different era back when people didn't lock their original disks the day they opened the box. 

And you took your original System disk to the dealer to get the new Finder or System file upgrade, etc... so that was all standard practice. I have plenty of system disks from 84-85 that have been upgraded, and often they would write the new System/Finder version on the label.

And the Tour disk wanted to be unlocked, so those were modified. MacPaint and MacWrite wanted the disk unlocked to write temporary files, so those disks were unlocked.

People wanted to use their Macintosh as a productive machine. They didn't care about software preservation or any of that nonsense.

 

[tanaquil]

Won't someone (in 1984) think of the poor collectors? 

 

[Rasmus]

And you took your original System disk to the dealer to get the new Finder or System file upgrade, etc... 

Here's what the dealer used to do that:

View attachment 23391

 

[Rasmus]

On the topic of missed chances to preserve something interesting and increasingly difficult to find again, here's a photo I pulled from eBay long ago:



This was probably System 3.0 Finder 5.1 (1.0a1) and I know for sure there was a second one of these, version 1.0a2 (likely System 3.2 Finder 5.3). I'm not sure how these were distributed, if they came with 800K external drives, or were just sent to dealers who gave them (or copies of them) to customers with 512Ks when they bought an 800K external drive.

 

[tanaquil]

I love it! So many bits of Macintosh history one rarely sees.

 

[NJRoadfan]

I never understood why the "System Software" revisions on the Macintosh side were such a mess pre-System 6. The folks in the Apple IIgs side of things had no problem applying an overall "System Software" revision to that system's releases from day 1 in 1986. Whoever worked on the "develop" CD wasn't very bright either, "System Software 1.0" on something that was released years after the Mac was :facepalm:. FWIW the system update disks that came with my Mac 512k were all hand written, obviously copied onto blanks from someone else.

 

[Rasmus]

This one I'm not at all sure about (the additional label could easily just be something a dealer made, rather than Apple's doing -- the use of "upgrade" instead of "update" makes me think that), but this may have been what the April 1985 "System Update" (System 2.0 Finder 4.1) disk sent to dealers looked like:

 

[Dog Cow]

I never understood why the "System Software" revisions on the Macintosh side were such a mess pre-System 6.

Because System and Finder versions were not coupled until System 7, though they tried to bring them closer in System 6. This comes from the design philosophy and architecture of the Macintosh operating system. Remember that Finder is not the operating system; it's just a shell. You can actually have a disk boot straight to an application with no Finder on that disk. Also, System file on disk is not the operating system, either, at least not in totality. It's just a collection of resources, patches, and some other small code to localize the user interface for a region. There were a few articles back in the day on which resources you could strip out of the System file to save on disk space and have a really minimal System file. Bulk of operating system was in Macintosh ROM, the toolbox.

Personally, I don't think it's productive or useful to use "System Software" terminology with any release prior to System 6. Just give System/Finder version combinations.

 

[Rasmus]

Here's what the dealer used to do that:

A few more comments on this disk. I'm confident that this is an Apple disk (I own the copy shown above), even though it doesn't come from Manufacturing and thus doesn't have a part number and so on. I've seen other copies of this particular disk, from other sources, and there's a Printer Installation v 1.1 disk that matches it:



Another thing about the Printer Installation disk is that it did go to manufacturing. I have images and screen shots I got from a very helpful person who had both this one and the earlier Printer Installation v 1.0 in its "manufactured" edition (this is the other disk that has Finder 5.2 on it):



One of the most interesting things about the two non-manufactured update disks sent to dealers is the use of the drop-down black box around "Macintosh" at the top. Like a Mac OS menu drop-down -- a more artistic version of this basic idea would later be used in all the 1987 packaging -- see the 1987 Macintosh Plus and SE system disks and manuals, for example.