De-Yellowing a Plus, Need Advice

[el.Schus]

Hello, long time lurker, first-time poster. :b&w:

A week ago I found the threads related to de-yellowing the compacts (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9381&start=0), got excited, and bought 9 bottles of H202. In hindsight, I should have started with the mouse, but again, I got excited and dunked the whole Plus. I tried it yesterday on the porch (I live in an apartment), but the roof blocked too much sun (I think) and it didn't work (only a little bit of color change). So today, I moved the bucket to the parking lot, and it's been sitting in the partly-cloudy day for about 4 hours now.

I started with 9 quarts of H202, 27 quarts of water, and 9 scoops of oxyclean. That filled the bucket most of the way; I probably added another gallon or so of water to fully submerge everything. I also used Lumpy and Mac128's ideas of filling an Arizona Ice Tea container with water to displace some more liquid under the back case.

Problem is, even after yesterday's session, the metallic paint/shielding inside the case has started to peel, badly. I thought if I let it dry without disturbing it the peeling would stop, but after last check, it seems like it's getting worse. Maybe that is a sign to stop soaking, but I figure it's on the inside and I am so close to having a pristine Plus (all the components work after I used 2 broken disk drives to make 1 working disk drive...I even fixed a spring in the keyboard).

Anyway, my question is--have I destroyed my Plus by chipping the metallic coating? What are the consequences of running the machine with compromised shield/paint stuff? Has anyone else experienced this? I don't think my mix is too concentrated (I must be well under 1% H202).

In a few hours I'll post pics with the results. Any advice is appreciated.

 

[JDW]

I had a fear of that happening myself; namely, that the metallic spray inside the case might be adversely affected by the H202 during deyellowing. But in my case, the reason I ultimately went with the gel form of LumpyBright is because H202 is expensive over here in Japan. This thread is a successor to the thread you mention in your post, and describes my own experiences with the gel version.

Of course, that thread is not going to help you now, as you've already dunked your case and have experienced problems. In my case, I did the deyellowing on a rather cool day, but a day on which I had direct sunlight all day long (no shadows from buildings, no clouds at all). I therefore had an abundance of UV light at my disposal, which clearly sped the deyellowing process along for me.

I did "dunk" my mouse plastics and some keyboard keys, since I didn't need so much of the liquid to do that. However, none of those pieces contained any metal, unlike the inside of a company Mac housing. And before I applied the gel form of Retro/LumpyBright to my SE/30's housing (on the outside only, not the metallic spay on the inside), I was careful to remove the Apple logo on front as that is paint on metal. And because the H202 I used was the normal drug store 3% (i.e., weak) stuff, I did not experience any degradation of the keyboard key silkscreened text or the text silked on the front of the SE/30 housing.

Whether you have destroyed your case or not is something we will have to determine after seeing your photos. But it is clear that you should stop the deyellow process right now to avert further damage to the shielding on the inside. I suppose that some people may contend that you really don't need to worry about the shielding even if it peels off. And that is true. The FCC won't track you down for spraying RF interference in your own home. But if you are like me, you may be bothered by the knowledge that you destroyed even an unseen part of your Mac, in which case you should revert to the gel deyellowing method instead of the liquid form.

To everyone reading this, if you have any bit of metal on something you wish to deyellow, consider well what kind of metal it is because it will be impacted negatively by the deyellowing process. In such cases, the gel form of RetroBright is your only realistic option. I know first-hand it is more troublesome that the liquid version, as you have to reapply it once an hour throughout the day. But it will give you the best results without damaging your metallic parts. Reserve the liquid form only for 100% plastic pieces, with no metal parts or metallic sprays on them at all.

 

[el.Schus]

Thanks, JDW. I think a combination of the gel method mixed with some more patience & planning would have done the trick.

Here is the damage. The last two photos are a 'before' (flat) and an 'after' (on the drainboard) of the bezel. I did remove the Apple badge; it was fun to learn it's just a metal sticker.

http://s836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/elSchus/

I've spent two days at this, battling the lack of sun (which is ironic, because I live in Florida, the sunshine state). I'm going to reassemble it and save it for another weekend, trying the gel method. I still need to completely disassemble the computer when using the paste, right?

I also will probably get a UV lamp so that I can do it indoors or at night. Would the best/cheapest source for this be a fish tank lamp?

The fact that some yellowing is gone is additional evidence that retr0bright does work, and hopefully others can learn from my mistakes. It's exciting that this is even possible; I have long lamented at how yellow my machines have gotten. Until last year it was a "nothing you can do about it" situation.

 

[Osgeld]

I have been tempted many times to get and try out the following product, but I have no clue how it compares to the original

http://www.allbatterysalesandservice.com/browse.cfm/4,405.html

 

[JDW]

Here is the damage.

While there is no way to undo the damage, I am sorry to say, you would be doing others a service by posting this story and links to your photos on the RetroBright Discussions page. I am sure there are many people who are unaware of the fact that the coating inside compact Macs contains metallic particles.

I also notice that you did not achieve hardly any deyellowing. LumpyDog achieved success with this even when diluting his H202 considerably, but perhaps you are diluting it too much?

In my case, I did not dilute the H202 at all with water. It was straight 3%.

 

[Mac128]

Here is the damage. The last two photos are a 'before' (flat) and an 'after' (on the drainboard) of the bezel. I did remove the Apple badge; it was fun to learn it's just a metal sticker. http://s836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/elSchus/

What you have is a reflective metallic treatment which I think originated with the SE and obviously extended to the Plus of the same era. I agree with JDW, please post your results to the Retrobright forum as this specific type of coating is as susceptible to the H202's corrosive effects as the metallic badges, which you wisely removed.

It is important to note, that this has not been a problem as confirmed with the thicker gray metallic paint coatings used from 1984–1987 and 1989 and later, which are perfectly safe to immerse for extended periods of time. Whatever the reason for Apple switching to the reflective metallic coating in 1987, they switched back to the thicker type by 1989 as my SE/30 and Classics both have the traditional thick gray paint.

Also, the effect seems to be compounded somewhat by your lack of sunlight, without otherwise delivering the desired de-yellowing. It has been noted that the best results are achieved on bright sunny days, warm or cold. I'm certain that the effects on the metallic coating would have been significantly mitigated if it had not been exposed to the H202 for such an extended period of time, and your Mac would be noticeably "brighter".

 

[elSchus]

I was going to ask if that coating was common to all the machines; I have memories of opening a 512k with my dad and seeing a more plastic-like interior.

Ah, I didn't realize Retr0bright had a forum as well. I signed up and posted a request to join that one too.

I was kind of upset that my results were so poor, and I messed up the case to boot. Once the machine was put back together and set on the table, I will say that it did look significantly better than before I started, so it wasn't a colossal failure. My next concern, however, is that the flaking coating is a danger to my logic board and/or analog board. With the heat inside the case, I think it's likely that flakes will float down... conductive flakes! So once I decide to take another stab at it, I am going to take steel wool to the inside of it and remove all the flakes. I don't want to risk an otherwise 100% working Plus.

 

[LCGuy]

I think most of them have the coating, even as far back as the 128k. My 128k has it, I just assumed they all did. Here's a photo of the guts of a 128k, with the coating:

 

[Dennis Nedry]

Anyway, my question is--have I destroyed my Plus by chipping the metallic coating? What are the consequences of running the machine with compromised shield/paint stuff? Has anyone else experienced this?

The Mac will be just fine without this metallic paint on the inside. The only thing you have done is make the Mac hideous on the inside, which you can't even see once it's put together! No harm done. The paint reduces interference. So if you have it right next to another monitor, there may be more interference now.

If it really bothers you, you could mask it all off and spray it with chrome spray paint. You may even find a flat metallic paint that would match better to the original.

 

[elSchus]

I started scraping away the coating using a putty knife. Seems to work pretty well, although I will have to finish it up with sandpaper. Will post results when I finish.

 

[Mac128]

I think most of them have the coating, even as far back as the 128k. My 128k has it, I just assumed they all did. Here's a photo of the guts of a 128k, with the coating:http://kcomputerzone.ca/media/gallery/Apple/Macintosh%20128k/Back%20Open.JPG

That's a completely different coating. That's the traditional gray paint, not the reflective silver coating. I have Never seen the silvery coating in any 128,512, Ke, or Plus (though I've never had a Plus from the SE era). The only Compact I have ever seen this in is the SE era.

 

[JDW]

I have Never seen the silvery coating in any 128,512, Ke, or Plus...

Neither have I. My eyes have only see the matte gray coating that feels slightly rough to the touch.

So was the coating on the inside of the case really that slick and shiny BEFORE you dipped it? Or was it originally the matte gray stuff but went shiny when you gave it the H202 bath?

 

[Quadraman]

Pluses have a beige case, though. How can they yellow? I thought the platinum colored Macs were the ones with yellowing issues.

 

[Dennis Nedry]

Pluses have a beige case, though. How can they yellow? I thought the platinum colored Macs were the ones with yellowing issues.

They just turn "more" yellow. Brownish maybe. It's less obvious than it is on platinum ones.

 

[Mac128]

Pluses have a beige case, though. How can they yellow?

Only the 1996 Pluses. The entire Apple line switched to corporate Platinum by 1997, including the 512Ke. Nevertheless, the beige plastics do in fact turn noticeably yellow, or orangey-brown depending on the extent of their exposure to UV and other elements. Check out the Retrobright threads – the before and after make the difference quite evident. The current shade of most of the early Apple products is most unappealing, yet the beige color Apple used was actually quite nice for beige, particularly the warm, somewhat taupe-hued, PMS 453 used on the first Macintosh. It's nice to finally have a way to be able to see it again.

You really don't notice the yellowing as much since beige is sort of a yellow-derivitive to begin with and of course they are all that color now. They worked hard after the Lisa to come up with a color and plastic formula which would resist the disastrous color change which afflicted the Lisa, some within a very short time, turned a horrible shade of Orange. The Macs age gracefully in mild office florescent UV and for that we can be thankful, as I doubt they would have the same appeal otherwise.

 

[Dennis Nedry]

Pluses have a beige case, though. How can they yellow?

Only the 1996 Pluses. The entire Apple line switched to corporate Platinum by 1997

I think you meant 1986 and 1987. That would be COOL to have a Mac Plus from 1997!

 

[JDW]

How can they yellow?

Only the 1996 Pluses. The entire Apple line switched to corporate Platinum by 1997

I think you meant 1986 and 1987.

Thankfully in 2010 we don't have Mac cases that yellow. We just have yellow displays:

Apple Admits Yellow-tint issues

:beige:

BTW, has anyone notice that this little 68kMLA "beige" smiley is in fact yellow? Beige is a tan color, so perhaps we need to have this icon fixed?

 

[Mac128]

I think you meant 1986 and 1987. That would be COOL to have a Mac Plus from 1997!

Nope. Didn't you know that Apple had a factory in Mexico next to the Volkswagon Beetle plant, that continued making the Mac Plus until 1997? :beige:

 

[Dennis Nedry]

I think you meant 1986 and 1987. That would be COOL to have a Mac Plus from 1997!

Nope. Didn't you know that Apple had a factory in Mexico next to the Volkswagon Beetle plant, that continued making the Mac Plus until 1997? :beige:

The fabled Power Macintosh Plus DOES EXIST! We shall send some troops to this defunct plant and liberate. While we're at it, we should go dig up all those Lisas.

There are yet treasures to be found in these seas.