Connecting a ImageWriter II To a Modern computer

[max1zzz]

I'm looking for a little guidance here, I have brought a USB to RS422 serial adapter and have wired up a according to these instructions: http://www.emaculation.com/doku.php/imagewriter_serial_cable_printing(I'm using a different adapter, but have wired it up the same and can't see why it should make a difference)

I than tried to set it up on my macbook following this: https://discussions.apple.com/docs/DOC-6621

The result? not a lot, When I try to print to it the print head moves from the center all the way to the left, then back to the center, Without printing anything (As far as I can tell - I'm waiting for a replacement ribbon for it). I have also tried it under windows xp using the C-Itoh 8510 driver, with the same result

The printer is fine as far as I can tell, it seems to be printing fine from my IIci

I'm at a bit of a loss as to why this isn't working, anyone got any ideas?

 

[rsolberg]

Did you try the current cable you're using with the adapter on the IIci previously? RX and TX backwards came to mind initially. My other thought is the data rate. I'm pretty sure the ImageWriter II likes 9600bps. Perhaps this is already set by default with the linked serial adapter, but not yours.

 

[johnklos]

An RS-232 adapter is perfectly fine for an Imagewriter II. The Moxa method seems unnecessarily complex. A standard 9 pin to DIN-8 is fine with a standard USB-serial:

http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-Synthesizer-Controller-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B000068OER

Set the port to 9600 baud. You should be able to use cu or a terminal program to print text directly. When you type, it won't do anything, but when you press enter, it'll print whatever you typed immediately.

You'll know if it prints even if you don't have a ribbon - the sound is unmistakeable. If you don't know what it sounds like, put in a clean sheet of paper and run the Imagewriter self-test printout. It's not bad to do, anyway, since it'll clean off the pins.

 

[unity]

This was what I used for a guide. Maybe something will help. But under El Capitan its a no go. So I need to setup some older machine.

https://discussions.apple.com/docs/DOC-6621

 

[bigmessowires]

I'm feeling a sudden need to acquire an Imagewriter... You can just send text over the serial port at 9600 bps and it will print?

Come to think of it, I have no idea how an Imagewriter works with respect to fonts and graphics. I'm guessing this predates the days when printers would have fonts built into them in ROM. I would have though the Imagewriter was basically an image printer, and the Mac printer driver was responsible for turning your selected fonts and styles into an image which was then sent to the printer. But if you can just type text into a terminal window, that seems to kill that theory.

 

[max1zzz]

Did you try the current cable you're using with the adapter on the IIci previously? RX and TX backwards came to mind initially. My other thought is the data rate. I'm pretty sure the ImageWriter II likes 9600bps. Perhaps this is already set by default with the linked serial adapter, but not yours.

Unfortunately not, I had to make the cable and don't have anything else I can test it on, but if i probe the pins it seems to be wired correctley

An RS-232 adapter is perfectly fine for an Imagewriter II. The Moxa method seems unnecessarily complex. A standard 9 pin to DIN-8 is fine with a standard USB-serial:

http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-Synthesizer-Controller-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B000068OER

Set the port to 9600 baud. You should be able to use cu or a terminal program to print text directly. When you type, it won't do anything, but when you press enter, it'll print whatever you typed immediately.

You'll know if it prints even if you don't have a ribbon - the sound is unmistakeable. If you don't know what it sounds like, put in a clean sheet of paper and run the Imagewriter self-test printout. It's not bad to do, anyway, since it'll clean off the pins.

Ahh, Ok, I'll try it with RS232 on my windows xp laptop tonight and see if it works any better

This was what I used for a guide. Maybe something will help. But under El Capitan its a no go. So I need to setup some older machine.

https://discussions.apple.com/docs/DOC-6621

Thats the same one I followed It all works fine up until I try to print, Where I get nothing out of the printer.

 

[max1zzz]

Ok, Having looked over the manual for my serial adapter, it looks like i might have TX and RX the wrong way round.....

I would have looked at is last night, if it wasn't for the fact the manual was on a mini cd and i didn't have anything to hand that didn't have a slot loading dvd drive.... had to bring the damn disc into work to see what was on it

 

[NJRoadfan]

I'm feeling a sudden need to acquire an Imagewriter... You can just send text over the serial port at 9600 bps and it will print?

Come to think of it, I have no idea how an Imagewriter works with respect to fonts and graphics. I'm guessing this predates the days when printers would have fonts built into them in ROM. I would have though the Imagewriter was basically an image printer, and the Mac printer driver was responsible for turning your selected fonts and styles into an image which was then sent to the printer. But if you can just type text into a terminal window, that seems to kill that theory.

It works strictly in graphics mode when connected to a Macintosh (it literally prints a giant bitmap). The Apple II used it built in text mode with programs like AppleWorks, WYSIWYG word processors used the graphics mode. Just about any printer with onboard processing (Epson ESC/P2, PCL, etc.) will print whatever text you send to it via parallel/serial.... even lasers (remember those font cartridges for HP printers). The latter usually requires a form feed character be sent to eject the page, but older printers usually have a button for that on the front panel.

 

[bigmessowires]

I found this documentation: http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/Apple%20II%20Documentation%20Project/Peripherals/Printers/Apple%20ImageWriter%20II/Manuals/Apple%20ImageWriter%20II%20-%20Quick%20Reference%20Card.pdf

Print next nnnn bytes as bit image graphics: Escape G nnnn

That doesn't explain how the bytes are interpreted, but I'd guess each byte is treated as a 1x8 bitmap, with the next byte printed following it on the right. Some experimentation with a terminal program should make it clear. 

 

[johnklos]

Somewhere I have the source for ImageWriter II software I wrote for my Sinclair QL (in 68000 assembly). It did screen dumps in graphics mode (the Sinclair QL had a bitmapped display). The graphics modes are not horribly complex.

No matter what computer you want to use to print, you can always send regular text to test it.

 

[max1zzz]

Ok, Just got it working

Turns out there where 2 problems (1) The adapter had the contacts marked the other way round to what I thought (2) The cable I was using was a modem cable and was wired oddly, using a normal serial cable it worked fine

After sorting that out it printed fine first time from both windows and OSX

 

[Dandu]

It works for me with a DB9 to DIN8 and a DB9/USB adapter (http://www.journaldulapin.com/2014/09/23/faire-fonctionner-une-imprimante-imagewriter-ii-sous-mac-os-x/, in french)

 

[Gorgonops]

That doesn't explain how the bytes are interpreted, but I'd guess each byte is treated as a 1x8 bitmap, with the next byte printed following it on the right. Some experimentation with a terminal program should make it clear. 

Here's newsgroup thread that has some useful info in it. (Most particularly that the mapping of bits to pins is upside-down compared to Epson-compatible printers.) Full documentation for the graphics mode is in the Technical Reference manual and, unusually for those old Apple manuals, it seems to be really hard to find it online. If you really want to write your own graphics programs/driver for it I'd guess your best bet would be to browse around the various archives of Apple II-related magazines.

Come to think of it, I have no idea how an Imagewriter works with respect to fonts and graphics. I'm guessing this predates the days when printers would have fonts built into them in ROM. I would have though the Imagewriter was basically an image printer, and the Mac printer driver was responsible for turning your selected fonts and styles into an image which was then sent to the printer. But if you can just type text into a terminal window, that seems to kill that theory.

Actually, most old dot matrix printers like the Imagewriter are primarily ASCII printers that happily spew text straight onto paper, so you can sort of think of them as being the output half of a "terminal". (Note however that many of them won't actually print a character or line of such until they either receive a carriage return/line feed or fill up their internal buffer, so you can't just poke a single letter out the serial port and have it instantly appear.) Multiple "fonts" (bold, italic, DOUBLE WIDTH, etc.) selected via control sequences were standard features fairly early on, while bit-resolution graphics started showing up around 1980 or so. The idea of a completely dumb graphics-only printer that can't work on even the most minimal level with text didn't really catch on until the 90's. (Most of the really early examples were lasers, like the Apple Laserwriter SC and the printer NeXT sold for use with their cubes. By the time you get to the late 90's most cheap lasers and inkjets were just dumb raster devices, but some of the higher end Epson and HP products retained some backwards compatibility with character mode. I think some of the Epson inkjets actually still retain at least partial compatibility with the Epson LQ impact printers, but it's getting pretty rare.)

So, yeah, despite the Mac driver *using* the Imagewriter just as a graphics printer the device itself had enough built-in intelligence to act as an oldschool line printer.

 

[NJRoadfan]

Don't remind me how hard it was to find the ImageWriter tech manuals. Without it, GSport wouldn't be emulating an ImageWriter LQ anytime soon. It took me over THREE YEARS to find that book. Whats interesting is modern Postscript printer drivers basically treat the printer as a dumb bitmap device. They usually send each page as an image with the required Postscript headers/ commands. Apple also released an ImageWriter emulator written in Postscript for LaserWriter printers. It allowed 8-bit Apple II software to print to Appletalk connected LaserWriters.

The Epson LQ standard was originally called Epson ESC/P, they later extended the command set for their Stylus inkjet line and dubbed it ESC/P2.

 

[Gorgonops]

Whats interesting is modern Postscript printer drivers basically treat the printer as a dumb bitmap device. They usually send each page as an image with the required Postscript headers/ commands.

That's sad. I mean, I suppose it's understandable given a desire to make the output *completely* consistent with the onscreen output; just telling the OS to render it using the same hooks as a dumb "GDI printer"-sort of thing would gets you off the hook for trying to match font appearance/kerning/etc exactly but it's a pathetic end for Postscript as a powerful rendering language in its own right.

(Pathetically enough I used to regularly do "Desktop Publishing" using WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS paired with a Postscript printer; anyone familiar with WP5.1 will remember how it was *completely* dependent on printer-resident fonts. This could be a nightmare if your printer was a mere mortal but with Postscript you could do pretty much *anything*, limited only by your patience for manually editing gibberish on the "Reveal Codes" editing view.)

In addition to Apple's ImageWriter emulator there were commercial Epson FX and HP PCL4 emulators out there. (Also seem to recall there being software to emulate plotters and other such craziness.) I remember the old Computer Shopper magazine running a series once about how to use your Postscript printer for general-purpose programming; back when the CPU in your Postscript printer may well have been more powerful than the one in your computer that made a certain amount of twisted sense. Sort of wonder if anyone ever did anything really interesting with that concept.

 

[NJRoadfan]

The Computer Shopper articles were written by Don Lancaster, who still maintains an extensive Postscript website: http://www.tinaja.com/post01.shtml

He was big on using AppleWriter in conjunction with Postscript to create professional documents on the Apple II. Even got a video on it: https://www.youtube.com/user/dontinaja

There are even some tutorials out there:

I actually learned Postscript basics while I was in college (as a hobby). For some reason the library had a ton of Postscript tutorial books along with Adobe's "Blue Book". It landed up coming in handy when working with the ImageWriter LQ emulator to get color Postscript file output working.

 

[bigmessowires]

Very interesting. I remember hearing lots of talk about Postscript printers vs "dumb" printers, but really had no idea what that meant in practical terms. Now it makes much more sense. But as a general design decision, I kind of question the wisdom of putting tons of processing power into your printer, so it can run arbitrary Postscript programs to generate a rendered page. I guess it would save on communications bandwidth between the computer and the printer. But since you know you already have a fairly powerful computer that's doing the printing, it seems much more logical to me to rely on that computer to do the heavy lifting and bake everything down to bitmap image which the printer draws on the page. And that would make printers much cheaper, by requiring them to have less CPU smarts and RAM than if they need to run complex Postscript programs.

 

[NJRoadfan]

Now its a no brainer to consider host based rendering of pages. Back in the mid 80s things were a bit different. The biggest problem today with host based printers is that they tend to become bricks in newer operating systems when the vendor stops updating drivers for them. Postscript and PCL5/6 printers ALWAYS work.

 

[Bunsen]

I kind of question the wisdom of putting tons of processing power into your printer, so it can run arbitrary Postscript programs to generate a rendered page. / since you know you already have a fairly powerful computer that's doing the printing

Well, Apple did both, with their LaserWriters.  Sometimes the same machine with a different logic board - one with a full Postscript RIP engine onboard, and the other one dependent on the Mac to do the rendering.

In fact Apple's first LaserWriter was more powerful than the current Mac - it had a 12MHz 68000.  Being able to offload rendering to the printer frees up the Mac to get on with other stuff.  Would you have really wanted to tie up the office Mac - with its single tasking OS - while a 100 page document prints?