Compatibility of the IIci PDS slot with the IIvi/IIvx

[MrFahrenheit]

I received this card today:



It was a brand new, still sealed, Daystar Turbo 601 PowerPC 100mhz accelerator card. I can’t believe something this special and this expensive sat this long somewhere unopened.

When I get a chance I’ll post benchmarks without it. @Bolle can you please confirm this card is the same as yours that works in a IIci?

 

[Bolle]

Yep, no harm going to be done by plugging this into a IIci. Even if it turns out to not work correctly because of firmware differences that might exist between the different SKU models.
Hardware-wise they’re all the same.

 

[volvo242gt]

Looks identical to the one I had for my old IIci, which I may reconquesting in a few days.

 

[Fizzbinn]

jealous…



Would be very cool to compare to the 100Mhz version for 040 PDS, a 8100/100 and a 7500/100

 

[MrFahrenheit]

I wanted to test the Turbo 601 in as many machines as possible, including a IIci, IIvi, IIvx and Performa 600. Maybe IIsi, if possible.

I was sure I had a IIvi among my collection of Macs, but sadly I only have the IIvx and P600 (of this series). I thought I had read that the IIvx and P600 used 33mhz processors on a 16mhz bus, and the IIvi used 16mhz processors on a 32mhz bus, but now I can’t find that info. Everything I find says all 3 are using the same 16mhz bus.

If that is correct, then I don’t “need” a IIvi to test this card.

@Bolle : I have a Sonnet 68040 upgrade for IIsi, with the dual slot adapter board. Can I use that same adapter board to try the Daystar Turbo 601 in a IIsi?

I really want to test in as many machines as possible without risking blowing something up. The Daystar Turbo 601 for 68030 seems to be extraordinarily rare.

What I did find somewhere online last night is that the IIci cache card can be used in a IIvx and P600 but not in the IIvi. I don’t know how or why that would be, and if true shows there’s a difference in the board itself from IIvi to the IIvx.

Also found a thread here from 2017 where members were trying to get a Turbo 601 to work in an SE/30, and it seemed that ROMs for the IIvi would be required somehow to work in an SE/30. The thread also mentions the ROMs for the IIvi are different than for the IIvx. I would think that’s strange isn’t it? Would the ROM on a Centris 650 be different from the Quadra 800 (both Wombat boards)?

 

[Bolle]

Can I use that same adapter board to try the Daystar Turbo 601 in a IIsi?

No entirely sure if it will work with the particular way the Turbo 601 activates the 601 and shuts off the 030 on the logicboard but it is worth a try.
Is your adapter one without any additional logic on it?

 

[MrFahrenheit]

No entirely sure if it will work with the particular way the Turbo 601 activates the 601 and shuts off the 030 on the logicboard but it is worth a try.
Is your adapter one without any additional logic on it?

@Bolle The Sonnet adapter I have is a dual slot adapter. It has a slot marked “for 68040 card only” and a slot marked “pds”. There is no logic on the card, only trace routing to pins.

 

[Phipli]

@Bolle The Sonnet adapter I have is a dual slot adapter. It has a slot marked “for 68040 card only” and a slot marked “pds”. There is no logic on the card, only trace routing to pins.

I have the 601 IIsi adapter card. I'll grab some photos.

Edit : yes, someone does seem to have painted some of it?!

 

[Phipli]

I thought I had read that the IIvx and P600 used 33mhz processors on a 16mhz bus, and the IIvi used 16mhz processors on a 32mhz bus, but now I can’t find that info. Everything I find says all 3 are using the same 16mhz bus.

IIvi is 16MHz CPU on a 16MHz bus.

 

[MrFahrenheit]

IIvi is 16MHz CPU on a 16MHz bus.

So testing of my 601 PPC card in a IIvx and Performa 600 is likely sufficient as there wouldn't be any real change in the accelerator performance on the IIvi, based on that.

 

[MrFahrenheit]

I have the 601 IIsi adapter card. I'll grab some photos.

Edit : yes, someone does seem to have painted some of it?!

Are you at all interested in either lending the adapter out or selling it, so that I could test the 601 card that I have in a IIsi ?

 

[Phipli]

Are you at all interested in either lending the adapter out or selling it, so that I could test the 601 card that I have in a IIsi ?

I don't mind loaning, but I'm in the UK, so postage back and forth is likely to be a nightmare. It might be worth putting out a general enquiry to see if anybody closer to hand has one to loan.

 

[MrFahrenheit]

I don't mind loaning, but I'm in the UK, so postage back and forth is likely to be a nightmare. It might be worth putting out a general enquiry to see if anybody closer to hand has one to loan.

Fair enough! Thanks for the photos, it gives me something to go on now.

 

[Phipli]

By coincidence I got a 601 upgrade in the post today. Just testing it, although I suspect my 650 PSU is playing up lately. Need to investigate.

 

[MrFahrenheit]

By coincidence I got a 601 upgrade in the post today. Just testing it, although I suspect my 650 PSU is playing up lately. Need to investigate.

Interesting!
The PPC 601 I tested on the IIci was 100Mhz, vs yours at 66Mhz. Mine benched CPU at about 63.5 vs yours at 111 (6100/60 being 100).

Looks like the faster bus in the 68040 machine results in a much closer upgrade to real hardware than the 68030 Mac’s do.

My results here: https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?thr...8030-macs-iivx-and-performa-600-tested.41651/

 

[Phipli]

Interesting!
The PPC 601 I tested on the IIci was 100Mhz, vs yours at 66Mhz. Mine benched CPU at about 63.5 vs yours at 111 (6100/60 being 100).

Looks like the faster bus in the 68040 machine results in a much closer upgrade to real hardware than the 68030 Mac’s do.

My results here: https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?thr...8030-macs-iivx-and-performa-600-tested.41651/

Mine is 64MHz because I socketed the clock and didn't have a 16.666666MHz clock

With the "32mhz" bus and 72 pin RAM, the 650 (this was a 25MHz C650 when I got it) is much closer to the PPCs. It could probably go a little faster because I have the machine ID set as the unreleased 40MHz Wombat config. I suspect it adds RAM wait states and tweaks the video chip speed. I have it set like this because I run the 040 at 40MHz and am avoiding overclocking the video circuit. I have to use WishIWere to keep some stuff happy.

I'm not sure I'm comfortable running the PPC card at 80MHz. Perhaps if I add better cooling. But I want to overhaul the PSU before I go that route.

 

[Phipli]

I might be able to find a 12MHz clock and benchmark it at 48MHz on a 24MHz bus for comparison with the IIci? Have to dig about for the clock.

 

[MrFahrenheit]

Mine is 64MHz because I socketed the clock and didn't have a 16.666666MHz clock

With the "32mhz" bus and 72 pin RAM, the 650 (this was a 25MHz C650 when I got it) is much closer to the PPCs. It could probably go a little faster because I have the machine ID set as the unreleased 40MHz Wombat config. I suspect it adds RAM wait states and tweaks the video chip speed. I have it set like this because I run the 040 at 40MHz and am avoiding overclocking the video circuit. I have to use WishIWere to keep some stuff happy.

I'm not sure I'm comfortable running the PPC card at 80MHz. Perhaps if I add better cooling. But I want to overhaul the PSU before I go that route.

Changing out your VRAM to 60ns chips would help you achieve faster speeds. 60ns can theoretically go above 50mhz.

 

[Phipli]

Changing out your VRAM to 60ns chips would help you achieve faster speeds. 60ns can theoretically go above 50mhz.

It was the video circuit I was doing it for. Interestingly my 128MB SIMMs won't work at 40MHz with either setting. But work at 33MHz. Although only recognised as 64 due to the way the ROM tests RAM during boot.

 

[Phipli]

jealous…



Would be very cool to compare to the 100Mhz version for 040 PDS, a 8100/100 and a 7500/100

My experience is that in a Quadra 650, the CPU benchmarks match withing a couple of %. I've tested at 60, 64 and 80MHz. Sadly I don't have a 100MHz to compare with an 8100/100.