Color Classic SCSI2SD issue

[PacNPal]

Hello! I tried googling this issue to no resolution so I thought I may give you fine folks a shot. I am in the process of restoring a Color Classic I acquired about a month ago. It was quite a steal at $80, but has given me headaches that I'm still in the process of fixing. I have already recapped the logic board, and the analog board is next. The internal edge connector has also been replaced, as has the floppy drive. The last lingering issue is the CRT has color issues. I thought it was a degauss issue but it appears to be more likely the analog board after a thorough degaussing. 

Anyhow, as I am finishing up my restoration (this is the most work I've done on one so far, still a bit of a novice), I decided it might be time to look into a new HDD. The old HDD in the Color Classic seemed to be on its last legs as it would hesitate to boot and was louder than a 747. I went with a SCSI2SD v6, as it seemed to be compatible and has the features I'm looking for. I've since mounted it and cannot for the life of me get an OS to install on it. I've initialized and re-initialized several times, termination is on, and the SCSI ID is set to 0. The size of the disk I've created is only 200 MB as well. The most common issue that pops up is a copying issue where the System 7 installer will note that it can't copy over an existing system file and to delete the system file and try again. Keep in mind this is a freshly initialized disk! I've tried installing via CD-ROM, Zip disk, etc. I've tried to image the drive as well, which did work but future installations fail with a similar error. 

Has anyone had this issue? If so, is there any resolution that anyone is aware of? Thanks for any help provided.

 

[Realitystorm]

Have you tried http://www.savagetaylor.com/2018/01/05/setting-up-your-vintage-classic-68k-macintosh-using-a-scsi2sd-adapter/

 

[PacNPal]

Have you tried http://www.savagetaylor.com/2018/01/05/setting-up-your-vintage-classic-68k-macintosh-using-a-scsi2sd-adapter/

I don't know if I had but I did follow some tutorial.

Either way, my issue was related to a firmware issue with the SCSI2SD. The creator sent me a firmware file that ended up fixing it. 

Word of caution though, the creator does not seem to like you emailing him with issues.

 

[Daniël]

I don't know if I had but I did follow some tutorial.

Either way, my issue was related to a firmware issue with the SCSI2SD. The creator sent me a firmware file that ended up fixing it. 

Word of caution though, the creator does not seem to like you emailing him with issues.

I know another member here needed the special firmware too, to get their V6 working with Classic Macs. But generally, the V6 seems terrible for Mac owners, period. The V5s and earlier have far less compatibility issues with Macintoshes.

 

[cheesestraws]

But generally, the V6 seems terrible for Mac owners, period

'Terrible' is overstating the case, I think.  I've had a lot of good luck with the v6 in faster/later 68k macs.  But for older machines it's inviting trouble, and doesn't provide much benefit.

 

[Daniël]

'Terrible' is overstating the case, I think.  I've had a lot of good luck with the v6 in faster/later 68k macs.  But for older machines it's inviting trouble, and doesn't provide much benefit.

Maybe, but I can't really recommend it regardless, if all of the most collectable SCSI 68ks like the Compacts just won't work with it without headaches.

 

[cheesestraws]

Maybe, but I can't really recommend it regardless, if all of the most collectable SCSI 68ks like the Compacts just won't work with it without headaches. 

That's fair. I certainly would agree it's the wrong option for all the compacts.

 

[MegaImg]

I just installed a 5.1 on my CC, no issue...be sure to Initialize the partition using 7.5.3 Patch tool first, after that I use DD and Basilisk II to create my image...

 

[MDMacGuy]

Word of caution though, the creator does not seem to like you emailing him with issues.

Care to elaborate on this? If someone sells a product for money, they need to back it up with support...

 

[MrFahrenheit]

Care to elaborate on this? If someone sells a product for money, they need to back it up with support...

I could be wrong here, but didn’t the creator of this just design the spec, and individuals (And companies)  can freely make it from soldering parts?  If so, then the creator wouldn’t be involved in the sale of the hardware and likely doesn’t “care” so to speak. 
 

I know other 2SD projects have been community efforts, so I’m assuming the SCSI2SD is no different. 

 

[MDMacGuy]

I could be wrong here, but didn’t the creator of this just design the spec, and individuals (And companies)  can freely make it from soldering parts?  If so, then the creator wouldn’t be involved in the sale of the hardware and likely doesn’t “care” so to speak. 
 

I know other 2SD projects have been community efforts, so I’m assuming the SCSI2SD is no different. 

Possibly. Regardless, it is still very sad if that is the case.

I am active in communities for a lot of my other hobbies - boating, automotive, railroad, etc - and by far, the vintage Mac community is the most helpful and friendly I have encountered.

 

[joethezombie]

I'm also curious about the support complaint on Micheal.  There have been multiple posts in these very forums about how helpful he is, and I myself have had nothing but first class personal support discussions with him.  I use SCSI2SD v6 boards almost exclusively, in everything with a 68030 or greater and have been absolutely satisfied with the product and the support.

I'm happy the firmware was able to resolve your issue.  Interestingly enough, my Color Classic is the one of the few equipped with a v5 board, mainly because of the custom tray I built out of chopsticks at the time. 

 

[LarBob]

I've had lots of problems installing System Software on the SCSI2SD v6 after it's been initialized with the patched HD SC Setup. After formatting the disk with Silverlining 5.8.3 instead, I've had no more issues of the sort. It'll easily fit on a floppy,

I've attached a 1.44 MB disk image with 5.8.3 on it. You can write it on Windows with WinImage, or

dd if="Silverlining.dsk" of=/dev/your_floppy_drive bs=84 skip=1


on *nix. I hope this helps anyone who sees this in the future.

By the way, would you mind uploading the firmware he sent you? It might be useful for others.

View attachment Silverlining.dsk

 

[MDMacGuy]

 Interestingly enough, my Color Classic is the one of the few equipped with a v5 board, mainly because of the custom tray I built out of chopsticks at the time. 

I've got a v5 board in mine and it has been flawless. My solution is not as elegant as yours though... it is double sided foam taped to the stock 3.5" carrier.

 

[joethezombie]

Ha, nice.   I do like some tech MacGyver!  I didn't even have the stock carrier.  I was lucky enough to find an edge connector adapter on ebay!  If you would have used velcro instead of foam tape, you'd had a somewhat authentic application.  I'm sure you noticed the CC's speaker is held in place with velcro!

 

[macdoogie]

I realize there are already SCSI to SD, CF etc out there, and all of these seem to have various issues with setup. I had once planned to make a version of my own, but not utilizing Compact Flash or SD Cards. I figured I'd just make a true Solid State SCSI drive with flash chips right on the board. I mean, do we really need 64 Gigabytes of storage for our vintage machines(I know, I know the old Macs can't even use all that  )? I figured on making a SCSI-1 only, with a capacity of somewhere between 128MB and 1GB depending on the flash densities available(I'd likely use SPI based flash). I'd also spoof one of the Quantum drives or such so that it could be initialized with Apple's HD SC setup utility. A disadvantage of my design would be that you can't load up the file system on a more modern computer like you can with the Astek(sp?) Compact Flash ones. That was pretty handy as I could use a CF to PCMCIA adapter and my PowerBook G4 to load up drives and then easily transfer them to my machine. Still, with HFS standard long deprecated, I figure it will be less popular to try and preload the media anyway. I took a look at the steps needed to image the SCSI2SD and it was a total turnoff. I suppose I could put the hooks in to connect the whole SSD to USB and create a command line tool to transfer images over. It would just be additional firmware.

Another thin I noticed was all of the funky termination schemes these modern equivalents use as well as their use of FPGAs to handle the fact that the SCSI bus is open drain 5V terminated and such which is not directly compatible with modern MCUs. I even worked through some of the scenarios for my proposed design and it just looked like an inelegant kludge, which made me not want to design such a monster. Finally, I decided that if I do make these, I'll use actual RoHM active termination ICs like the CF Astek ones did, even though that means hunting down a supply of obsolete components and the possibility of those disappearing just like the DB19's did. I'd also use an ACTUAL SCSI Controller IC. In this case, the Zilog Z53C8003, which I can still buy from Mouser! It's much simpler to translate from it's 5V MCU style bus to a 3.3V ARM Cortex-M or similar MCU. And the Zilog part is made to hold up to the up to 48mA sink that can occur on the SCSI Bus. Alot of the discrete Open Drain parts I found could only safely sink 24mA per pin and had a package limit that could further limit the total drain as well.

Anyways, this is one of the projects teetering on the list of things I've decided to not ever do in the name of doing other projects in my available "free time". The one project I just decided to save from that list is my replacement Analog Board for a Color Classic Flat Panel conversion. I'll probably be starting a separate forum topic for that, which will probably be one of my so-called "winter projects".(Hey California has winter too, kind of..., well, it gets dark at least!)