Booting Mac OS 8.6 on 1st Gen Clamshell iBooks (Model # M2453)

[CC_333]

I got an early version of the first generation iBook (the one that came in either Tangerine of Blueberry) last year, and it boots OS 8.6. Newer ones which came from the factory with 9.0 (such as my first one, bought new) apparently cannot boot 8.6. The main difference appears to be the boot ROM version.

According to EveryMac:

Early models can run Mac OS 8.6 whereas models shipped after Mac OS 9 was released cannot run earlier versions of the Mac OS. Specifically, if the iBook has ROM version $77D.45F3, it will run Mac OS 8.6, but if it has a later ROM version, it cannot.

What I'm wondering is, is it possible to somehow copy the firmware form an early model (which I have), transplant it into a firmware updater, and use that to downgrade a newer model's ROM to $77D.45F3?

Thanks,

c

 

[nglevin]

I can't speak to what it would take to replace an existing ROM, but flashrom does support copying PowerPC firmware to a file, even though it's hard for me to determine what's supported given that the listings under supported hardware refer to firmware chips, and I don't know exactly which ones Apple used.

This was the original announcement thread regarding flashrom working on PPC Macs to explain how it works. You might have to find an older version of Ubuntu that runs on PowerPC to pull this off "easily", but there should be something lurking around that you can boot from a CD-R with a recent flashrom on it. If you can't just download it from the package manager "apt-get".

I believe flashrom also has the capability to overwrite as well as dump the existing ROM. Chances of bricking your Mac are high since I haven't seen anyone do this yet. However, this is the tool that people that like to take risks use to unofficially upgrade Mac Pro firmware in a Mac OS X GUI wrapper, such as upgrading a 4,1 to resemble a 5,1.

YMMV, especially considering Open Firmware is certainly not exactly the same as EFI and UEFI.

 

[-_- JC]

I got an early version of the first generation iBook (the one that came in either Tangerine of Blueberry) last year, and it boots OS 8.6. Newer ones which came from the factory with 9.0 (such as my first one, bought new) apparently cannot boot 8.6. The main difference appears to be the boot ROM version.

According to EveryMac:




What I'm wondering is, is it possible to somehow copy the firmware form an early model (which I have), transplant it into a firmware updater, and use that to downgrade a newer model's ROM to $77D.45F3?

Thanks,

c

Did you ever get this to work?

 

[CC_333]

Did you ever get this to work?

Between COVID and two big moves, I never found the time to try, unfortunately.

c

 

[joevt]

77D.45F3 is an Old World ROM version which I don't have. The last Old World ROM I have is 77D.45F2.

I have a flashrom for OS X for getting firmware dumps on PowerPC Macs.

 

[joevt]

Is 77D.45F3 the version of the Mac OS ROM file, not the firmware version?

 

[LightBulbFun]

you dont need to downgrade the BootROM/OpenFirmware version of any New World Mac, to boot the original install media

you can boot Mac OS 8.6 on an Original clamshell, even when said clamshell is on the latest 4.1.7 firmware (Ditto Sawtooth 4.2.8)

all it requires is that you find the original install disks or images their of

Toolbox ROM image 2.5.1 is the latest for MacOS 8.6 AFAIK thats the one that shipped with the Sawtooth Media and can be used on a clamshell if desired

 

[-_- JC]

you dont need to downgrade the BootROM/OpenFirmware version of any New World Mac, to boot the original install media

you can boot Mac OS 8.6 on an Original clamshell, even when said clamshell is on the latest 4.1.7 firmware (Ditto Sawtooth 4.2.8)

all it requires is that you find the original install disks or images their of

Toolbox ROM image 2.5.1 is the latest for MacOS 8.6 AFAIK thats the one that shipped with the Sawtooth Media and can be used on a clamshell if desired

Didn't work for me. My iBook doesn't read burned CD's, so I found original 8.6 restore disks on eBay, and it still had the same issue of attempting to start up and shutting down as soon as it reached the desktop. I checked the serial number and my iBook is an early model, made in September 1999 which is a month before the release of OS 9 meaning it definitely would've shipped with 8.6. I think that once you update the firmware, there's no going back.

 

[3lectr1cPPC]

I forget what firmware my Tangerine is on (I can check) but I was able to install 8.6 no problem a while back. It's dual booted with OS X as well.

 

[treellama]

I also have a tangerine that shuts down immediately on booting 8.6, likely due to the updated ROM. I think at least one blueberry here can boot 8.6, is it worth potentially sacrificing a clamshell to the flashrom cause

 

[joevt]

I got an early version of the first generation iBook (the one that came in either Tangerine of Blueberry) last year, and it boots OS 8.6. Newer ones which came from the factory with 9.0 (such as my first one, bought new) apparently cannot boot 8.6. The main difference appears to be the boot ROM version.

According to EveryMac:

Early models can run Mac OS 8.6 whereas models shipped after Mac OS 9 was released cannot run earlier versions of the Mac OS. Specifically, if the iBook has ROM version $77D.45F3, it will run Mac OS 8.6, but if it has a later ROM version, it cannot.

What I'm wondering is, is it possible to somehow copy the firmware form an early model (which I have), transplant it into a firmware updater, and use that to downgrade a newer model's ROM to $77D.45F3?

77D.45F3 is an Old World ROM version which I don't have. The last Old World ROM I have is 77D.45F2.

Is 77D.45F3 the version of the Mac OS ROM file, not the firmware version?

An Old World ROM with version 77D.45F3 (for a Gossamer based Mac) has been recently posted at https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?threads/the-820-0961-a-mystery-g3-3-3v-flashrom.48746

However, the 77D.45F3 ROM revision discussed in this thread is not for the ROM of the machine. It is the version of the 4MB Old World ROM that is compressed inside the Mac OS ROM file in the System Folder of the iBook.
https://www.aaa-int.jp/machan/computer/ibook/applesystemprofile.html

I used tbxi to extract the contents of all the New World Mac OS ROM files at https://github.com/joevt/MacROMan
Then I used a script to get the version from each of the 4MB MacROM files that were extracted.

You see there is some overlap between the New World ROM files and the ROMs of later revisions of the Beige G3 which means Apple was working on New World ROM files while still releasing those Old World Macs.

I'm not sure why they stopped incrementing the ROM revision number after the first 077d.45f6 even though changes were still being made to the 4MB MacROM parcel. There's a couple with 077d.44b5, five with 077d.44f1, two with 077d.45f3, and 31 with 077d.45f6. All have different checksums so they are not the same even though they might have the same revision number. Many of the differences are just build dates in the resources but there are maybe some code differences as well.

077d.45f1 "Boot Gossamer 0." 78fdb784 8fd9c829342fa76213e7efbad2a80823 "./TestImages/4MB ROMs/1998-08-12 - 78FDB784 - PowerMac G3 Minitower (beige 266MHz) - 8.0-10.2.8 - 128-768M.ROM"
077d.45f2 "Boot Gossamer 0." 78f57389 616d792ee6e2877c5c8faf30b6c56fe8 "./TestImages/4MB ROMs/1998-04-01 - 78F57389 - PMG3 (r3) - 8.5.1-10.4.11 - 128M-1G.ROM"
077d.45f3 "Boot Gossamer 0." 78e842a8 da81cd01c7c743f9eb2637465182f591 "./TestImages/4MB ROMs/78E842A8 - Beige G3 rev D.ROM"

077d.44f1 "NewWorld v1.0.p." fd86d120 5895907db063ef0112f19d930fdc9344 "./1998-07-21 - Mac OS ROM (New World 1.1) Mac OS 8.1 (iMac, Rev A Bundle).rom.src/MacROM"
077d.44f3 "NewWorld v1.0.p." fd12b69e bdd5d376f48bea390d8e31ae54f0a25d "./1998-08-27 - Mac OS ROM (New World 1.1.2) Mac OS 8.5 (Retail CD), iMac Update 1.0.rom.src/MacROM"
077d.44f4 "NewWorld v1.0.p." fcaad843 3408c536a9fdcd1c5eff6106457221a8 "./1998-09-19 - Mac OS ROM (New World 1.1.5) Mac OS 8.5 (iMac, Rev B Bundle).rom.src/MacROM"
077d.44f1 "NewWorld v1.0.p." d36ba902 72c42735d38c54ff4339753af48529a2 "./1998-12-03 - Mac OS ROM (New World 1.2) Power Macintosh G3 (Blue and White) Mac OS 8.5.1 Bundle, Macintosh Server G3 (Blue and White) Mac OS 8.5.1 Bundle.rom.src/MacROM"
077d.44f1 "NewWorld v1.0.p." d377adb7 93331e61cc77009d454866906d051254 "./1999-01-22 - Mac OS ROM (New World 1.2.1) Mac OS 8.5.1 (Colors iMac 266 MHz Bundle), iMac Update 1.1.rom.src/MacROM"
077d.44b5 "NewWorld v1.0.p." c804f7f4 6e56f280d33f351ca93b56b24026d470 "./1999-04-05 - Mac OS ROM (New World 1.4) Mac OS 8.6 (Retail CD), Mac OS 8.6 (Colors iMac 333 MHz Bundle), Power Macintosh G3 (Blue and White) Mac OS 8.6 Bundle.rom.src/MacROM"
077d.44b5 "NewWorld v1.0.p." c7cb0323 f3a80e15bf7831d9310ce0ed3c67718f "./1999-05-14 - Mac OS ROM (New World 1.6) Macintosh PowerBook G3 Series 8.6 Bundle, Mac OS ROM Update 1.0.rom.src/MacROM"
077d.44f1 "NewWorld v1.0.p." c75c6aab fcfd83f68f80adcde694dd2867a0c633 "./1999-08-23 - Mac OS ROM (New World 1.7.1) Mac OS 8.6 bundled on Power Mac G4 (PCI).rom.src/MacROM"
077d.44f1 "NewWorld v1.0.p." c753c667 3184b3597def0ecd1f339c6065f31f13 "./1999-08-28 - Mac OS ROM (New World 1.8.1) Mac OS 8.6 Power Mac G4 ROM 1.8.1 Update.rom.src/MacROM"
077d.45f3 "NewWorld v1.0..." cde9cda4 30f47d294ea61d272be23cc7f97594c1 "./1999-09-13 - Mac OS ROM (New World 2.3.1) Mac OS 8.6 bundled on iMac (Slot Loading), iBook.rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f3 "NewWorld v1.0..." ce8a3b5c 0f88c59c21c2ebb483406509a4ad97d1 "./1999-09-17 - Mac OS ROM (New World 2.5.1) Mac OS 8.6 bundled on Power Mac G4 (AGP).rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f4 "NewWorld v1.0..." ce1fd217 ba32c3d9d12a9e1da5be8c0ad2d1416c "./1999-09-27 - Mac OS ROM (New World 3.0) Retail Mac OS 9.0 installed on Power Macintosh G3 (Blue and White), Retail Mac OS 9.0 installed on iMac, Mac OS 9.0 bundled on PowerBook G3 Bronze.rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f5 "NewWorld v1.0..." ce1cf7f7 56f5546b6a8eac160414b4212a4dde67 "./1999-10-28 - Mac OS ROM (New World 3.1.1) Mac OS 9.0 bundled on iBook, Mac OS 9.0 bundled on Power Mac G4 (AGP Graphics):iMac (Slot-Loading).rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." b9eb8c3d da47f37c6983dc80c6496b3809178eb0 "./2000-01-29 - Mac OS ROM (New World 3.5) Mac OS 9.0.2 bundled on Power Mac G4 (AGP) and iBook, Mac OS 9.0.2 installed on PowerBook (FireWire).rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." b8c832f3 605fe20cba2c6cf4d3eefe43b7cc5df3 "./2000-02-17 - Mac OS ROM (New World 3.6) Mac OS 9.0.3 bundled with iMac (Slot Loading).rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." b8b2c971 877ae92740a2bc0fd2a1ff6aba005dee "./2000-03-15 - Mac OS ROM (New World 3.7) 9.0.4 Retail CD.rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." b8bea8b3 1168c4c2b8393ac7ca38ccade91a9dfd "./2000-05-22 - Mac OS ROM (New World 3.8) 9.0.4 Ethernet Update.rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." c90b6289 fa867fa0918fe6b44bd6d459db73e88d "./2000-06-18 - Mac OS ROM (New World 4.6.1) Mac OS 9.04 Mac OS 9.0.4 bundled on iMac (Summer 2000), Power Mac G4 (Summer 2000).rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." c92f71d3 40efc13d69a9b19f0f02c700b469e7a9 "./2000-06-28 - Mac OS ROM (New World 4.9.1) Mac OS 9.0.4 bundled on Power Mac G4 MP (Summer 2000) (CPU software 2.3), Power Mac G4 (Gigabit Ethernet).rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." c8e1be97 edc649bec4ab20703ba5e19f82a14d3a "./2000-07-12 - Mac OS ROM (New World 5.2.1) Mac OS 9.0.4 installed on Power Mac G4 Cube (CPU software 2.4).rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." ce2a2a5b f61177db07135701e3871c045f2a1f60 "./2000-08-14 - Mac OS ROM (New World 5.3.1) Mac OS 9.0.4 bundled on iBook (Summer 2000) (CPU software 2.5).rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." ce1b9fd2 fe0ec92d15e0f1bb1b2c5e455d2a7353 "./2000-08-25 - Mac OS ROM (New World 5.5.1) Mac OS 9.0.4 from International G4 Cube Install CD.rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." e20aa0d0 2f96b99063bfb8f00469e3412e51cc93 "./2000-11-03 - Mac OS ROM (New World 6.1) 9.1 Universal Update.rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." eacb3ca4 128232303f8f3cd4e0008f03e2faf768 "./2000-12-01 - Mac OS ROM (New World 6.7.1) Mac OS 9.1 installed on Power Mac G4 (Digital Audio).rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." ea00f1b7 f0180c66523530a40ddae5c27df8893d "./2001-02-07 - Mac OS ROM (New World 7.5.1) 9.1 iMac 2001.rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." eece7cd0 217f8304f61322045930b8daf20c76e3 "./2001-04-10 - Mac OS ROM (New World 7.8.1) bundled on iBook (Dual USB) (CPU Software 3.5).rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." eed28047 53a8d1197881c5aae118709902bc0a31 "./2001-04-24 - Mac OS ROM (New World 7.9.1) Mac OS 9.1 bundled on PowerBook G4.rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." ee6bc7d9 420d4389321bb4569358b053fc7ca0e2              "./Mac OS ROM (New World 8.0) Mac OS 9.2 Power Mac G4 Install CD.rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." ed7f9fc2 d0eae9e586ecfcf074d1f87412dfcdbe "./2001-07-18 - Mac OS ROM (New World 8.3.1) Mac OS 9.2 installed on iMac (Summer 2001), Mac OS 9.2 installed on Power Mac G4 (QuickSilver).rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." ed26a1ef e6988b1798bfc81dffe4c74e525784c5 "./2001-07-30 - Mac OS ROM (New World 8.4) Mac OS 9.2.1 Update CD.rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." ec849611 3c5966e2a2bd2cae57d278505d27b9ad "./2001-09-25 - Mac OS ROM (New World 8.6.1) Mac OS 9.2.1 bundled on iBook G3 (Late 2001).rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." ecc44a65 90006355166a000475dbc6e5599d5d21 "./2001-11-07 - Mac OS ROM (New World 8.7) Mac OS 9.2.2 Update SMI.rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." ec96aeb6 ebf64078e98e3f9d1d0505d5c95039f7 "./2001-11-26 - Mac OS ROM (New World 8.8) Mac OS 9.2.2 Update CD.rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." ec93ab73 1d64c42ae95f6f97e40b911d454bafed "./2001-12-11 - Mac OS ROM (New World 8.9.1) Mac OS 9.2.2 bundled on iBook (CPU Software 4.4).ROM.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." ec86128e 7b1378be15d99ac1a15ab2fc22bcc56f "./2001-12-19 - Mac OS ROM (New World 9.0.1) Mac OS 9.2.2 bundled on  iMac (2001).rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." ecef6af1 2644310772608f910e8eef8c326800bc "./2002-04-08 - Mac OS ROM (New World 9.1.1) Mac OS 9.2.2 bundled on iMac G4.rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." ecc6f29a 2998db8cbf904f2c0d2178f194689af3 "./2002-04-17 - Mac OS ROM (New World 9.2.1) Mac OS 9.2.2 bundled on eMac (CPU Software 4.9).rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." ecd3453f ab9ae925629a9b3227fe82813bbcabc4 "./2002-04-18 - Mac OS ROM (New World 9.3.1) Mac OS 9.2.2 bundled on PowerBook G4 (CPU Software 5.0).rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." ecaf0460 bcb1214b7ab1f6b8689871d1676d1a70 "./2002-07-18 - Mac OS ROM (New World 9.5.1) Mac OS 9.2.2 bundled on iMac (17" Flat Panel) (CPU Software 5.3).rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." ecbd9bd2 4e9cc45d7edcb73fc40e2411559fc89c "./2002-09-03 - Mac OS ROM (New World 9.6.1) Mac OS 9.2.2 (CPU Software 5.4).rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." ecb7c4f9 89bfde7964604db6bcad99ba1115304f "./2002-10-11 - Mac OS ROM (New World 9.7.1) Mac OS 9.2.2 bundled on PowerBook (Titanium, 1GHz).rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." ecb96443 3f78f1f14e03b9c3ddbd08bfec55f536 "./2003-01-10 - Mac OS ROM (New World 9.8.1) 9.2.2.rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." ecb8e951 bf37e7aa8df650885c64f680dbdcaade "./2003-03-17 - Mac OS ROM (New World 10.1.1) Mac OS 9.2.2 bundled on eMac 800MHz (CPU Software 5.7).rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"
077d.45f6 "NewWorld v1.0..." ecb73ad5 1ce7181bb8ca9e5e016e086b6736cf2e "./2003-04-03 - Mac OS ROM (New World 10.2.1) Mac OS 9.2.2 Retail International CD.rom.src/Parcels.src/MacROM"